EU ban on lead ammunition for airguns, shotguns and rifles

[Smellydog]

I think a certain gentleman has spent to much time with politicians and hence forth can no longer be trusted!

Sod the axe grinding, off with his head !!

Only kidding Connor .
I think basic are doing a grand job of hanging themselves

 

[Woodenbeam]

Well at least Conor’s last post was a more pro-lead than usual - and up to date as opposed to recycled reviews of archaic scientific papers from the 1800’s

Back on topic, a note in relation to the AOB agenda item for the meeting of the “Agriculture and Fisheries” Council on 26 May 2025 as follows:

https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/ST-9225-2025-INIT/en/pdf

I understand that the next EU REACH Committee meeting is scheduled for 25-26 June.

Let’s hope Basic finds the balls to do a Starmer winter payment reversal to keep the masses appeased

 

[Ruger#1]

Well at least Conor’s last post was a more pro-lead than usual - and up to date as opposed to recycled reviews of archaic scientific papers from the 1800’s

Let’s hope Basic finds the balls to do a Starmer winter payment reversal to keep the masses appeased

A bit early for celebrating. When opposition to further lead shot restrictions are met with the same enthusiasm as the earlier posts promoting and justifying a lead shot ban then we can conclude that BASC has finally decided to act in the best interests of the future of fieldsports .Rather than empty words a move away from political posturing on lead shot use and a drive towards promoting sustainable field sports activity more representative of the sport carried out by the majority of shooters would be more reassuring.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

I think a certain gentleman has spent to much time with politicians and hence forth can no longer be trusted!

Sod the axe grinding, off with his head !!

Only kidding Connor .
I think basic are doing a grand job of hanging themselves

Back on topic, the EC draft regs contain an exemption for "the use and placing on the market of gunshot, or to the use of bullets, for muzzle-loading guns and historic firearms, including their modern replicas."

A PQ of interest from Pippa Heylings, Lib Dem MP for South Cambridge in April about "a derogation for vintage firearms that cannot safely use alternatives to lead shot in the proposed lead shot ban".

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2025-04-30/49526

Here is a letter from last week's Shooting Times on 'alternatives for muzzle-loaders'.

 

[Heym SR20]

Back on topic, the EC draft regs contain an exemption for "the use and placing on the market of gunshot, or to the use of bullets, for muzzle-loading guns and historic firearms, including their modern replicas."

A PQ of interest from Pippa Heylings, Lib Dem MP for South Cambridge in April about "a derogation for vintage firearms that cannot safely use alternatives to lead shot in the proposed lead shot ban".

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2025-04-30/49526

Here is a letter from last week's Shooting Times on 'alternatives for muzzle-loaders'.

A very sensible exception. In the same way with old vintage and veteran cars and aeroplanes, their owners and operators can still obtain leaded petrol of appropriate octane for them to be run safely, whilst every day motorcars have been run on unleaded petrol for nearly 30 odd years.

 

[Ruger#1]

If exceptions were to be made for old Damascus barrelled muzzle loaders there would be a good case for having Damascus barrelled breech loaders included which were likewise designed for black powder and softer lead shot and not suited to steel.

 

[Heym SR20]

If exceptions were to be made for old Damascus barrelled muzzle loaders there would be a good case for having Damascus barrelled breech loaders included which were likewise designed for black powder and softer lead shot and not suited to steel.

I suspect the powers that be would take they view that this would be a back door way of continuing to supply lead shot cartridges.

The HSE in their reports do raise concerns that many shooters won’t abide by the law, citing the number of wild duck coming into dealers that contain lead, even though in England shooting wildfowl has been prohibited for 20 plus years. Hence the reason the HSE are advocating for the prohibition of the sale or supply of ammunition containing lead.

 

[Liveonce]

I suspect the powers that be would take they view that this would be a back door way of continuing to supply lead shot cartridges.

The HSE in their reports do raise concerns that many shooters won’t abide by the law, citing the number of wild duck coming into dealers that contain lead, even though in England shooting wildfowl has been prohibited for 20 plus years. Hence the reason the HSE are advocating for the prohibition of the sale or supply of ammunition containing lead.

Very poor reasoning by the HSE it’s illegal to drive above 70mph on a motorway many do, but they do not ban vehicles they enforce the law where ever and when ever they can.

not difficult for the dealers to record from who they purchased the wild duck and take enforcement action if required as some may originate from Scotland.

 

[Leec6.5]

They will not be able to police it, they banned lead full stop tomorrow, people would still be shooting it In years and Years

 

[Heym SR20]

They will not be able to police it, they banned lead full stop tomorrow, people would still be shooting it In years and Years

they are proposing to ban the supply and sale of lead ammunition. Shooters do not have an infinite supply of lead ammunition, and those who shoot regularly will run out.

In exactly the same way on the garage forecourt you can only buy unleaded petrol. You can, I understand, still buy leaded petrol from specialist suppliers for historic vehicles, but sources are few and far between and expensive.

Of course there will be those who will hoard their lead cartridge and belligerently continue to use it. I think you can only store up to about 15 kg of explosives / propellants without requiring an explosive licence and thats not a huge number of cartridges if you are the sort of shooter who shoots 250 cartridges on a days shooting. I am not sure the Police FEO will look too kindly on issuing an explosives licence to stock pile large numbers of lead cartridges if and when a ban is imposed.

 

[Mike L]

Do they categorise cartridge propellant like that?
I thought the 15kg was for loose propellant?

 

[Apthorpe]

they are proposing to ban the supply and sale of lead ammunition. Shooters do not have an infinite supply of lead ammunition, and those who shoot regularly will run out.

In exactly the same way on the garage forecourt you can only buy unleaded petrol. You can, I understand, still buy leaded petrol from specialist suppliers for historic vehicles, but sources are few and far between and expensive.

You cannot. There is no supply of leaded petrol anywhere in the world.

Of course there will be those who will hoard their lead cartridge and belligerently continue to use it.

Belligerently? Really? Exercising a right which has hitherto been the norm since time immemorial is belligerent?

I think you can only store up to about 15 kg of explosives / propellants without requiring an explosive licence and thats not a huge number of cartridges if you are the sort of shooter who shoots 250 cartridges on a days shooting. I am not sure the Police FEO will look too kindly on issuing an explosives licence to stock pile large numbers of lead cartridges if and when a ban is imposed.

I think that applies to bulk propellants or explosives, not ammunition. It does not seem to be necessary for people to have an explosives licence to bulk buy cartridges. Lots of syndicates group buy 10,000 at a time.

 

[Heym SR20]

Very poor reasoning by the HSE it’s illegal to drive above 70mph on a motorway many do, but they do not ban vehicles they enforce the law where ever and when ever they can.

not difficult for the dealers to record from who they purchased the wild duck and take enforcement action if required as some may originate from Scotland.

No policing will be required. You simply won’t be able to buy lead ammunition, and unless you have vast stockpiles your supply of lead will soon run out. In the same way Petrol engined cars on our roads are all running unleaded petrol as that is what is available to very vast majority of drivers.

There will also be pressure on landowners, shoot captains, range operators etc. It’s simply not worth breaching supply contracts, certification contracts, loose grants etc etc if you allow illegal pollutants, destruction of habitat, or belligerent bob to carry on shooting his lead cartridges.

 

[Heym SR20]

Do they categorise cartridge propellant like that?
I thought the 15kg was for loose propellant?

Yes they do. I believe 15kg of propellant if stored in shotgun cartridges is about 10,000 cartridges.

 

[Mike L]

Yes they do. I believe 15kg of propellant if stored in shotgun cartridges is about 10,000 cartridges.

I won’t be getting near the limit then!!

 

[palmer_mike]

they are proposing to ban the supply and sale of lead ammunition. Shooters do not have an infinite supply of lead ammunition, and those who shoot regularly will run out.

I have a lead pot, and a moulds for my muzzle loader and black powder cartridge rifle.

Scrap Lead is never likely To not be available

 

[JTO]

An interesting point, that!
When I was a semi-commercial beekeeper some years ago, an EU ruling came in that all premises that sold honey on a commercial basis had to install adequate cleaning facilities. They then laid out what we had to do, hot water in the preparation room, stainless sinks and the list went on and on. We, like many English Beekeepers, complied. It's what we do in this country!

That same year, I went to a few European countries and visited several commercial beekeeping setups. None of which had complied with the new regulations. When I asked why, they said it would cost too much, and they had been doing things the same way for donkeys' years. It seemed they all said they would comply, but then did nothing!

This appears to be their attitude on many things:- rules are for the British, not us!

 

[JTO]

Perhaps someone could start a petition to ban the sale of cars capable of more than 70 mph.

 

[Apthorpe]

Perhaps someone could start a petition to ban the sale of cars capable of more than 70 mph.

Well....see how far your range lasts driving an EV fast.
All newish cars already are fitted effectively with kill switches allowing someone to remotely disable them.

 

[Dunwaters]

they are proposing to ban the supply and sale of lead ammunition. Shooters do not have an infinite supply of lead ammunition, and those who shoot regularly will run out.

The proposal is to ban the “ sale, use and possession” of lead ammunition post ban and transition period.
If this is backed up by a program of ammunition inspection during certificate renewals, implementation wont take long.

In exactly the same way on the garage forecourt you can only buy unleaded petrol. You can, I understand, still buy leaded petrol from specialist suppliers for historic vehicles, but sources are few and far between and expensive.

Of course there will be those who will hoard their lead cartridge and belligerently continue to use it. I think you can only store up to about 15 kg of explosives / propellants without requiring an explosive licence and thats not a huge number of cartridges if you are the sort of shooter who shoots 250 cartridges on a days shooting. I am not sure the Police FEO will look too kindly on issuing an explosives licence to stock pile large numbers of lead cartridges if and when a ban is imposed.

Had BASC’s “ voluntary transition” been accompanied by a ban on commercial sales of game harvested using lead ammunition we wouldn’t be still using it, just as we don’t use plastic wads anymore because most shoots ban them.
I have some sympathy for BASC, Tesco announced that they were going lead free at the beginning of the transition period, had that lead been followed by other supermarket chains, the pressure to change would have been driven by both dealers and the shoots supplying them.
Without that poke, inertia ruled, nothing changed because there was no incentive to change.