Lead ammunition restrictions - government announcement

[HonestJohn]

Bugger.. just looked at the cost of 6kg of bismuth to replace the no6 lead in my slab of 410 subsonics (kindly gifted to me) £300 + delivery. Think the old norica bolt action may be heading to the scrapper

Seemingly, Hortonium is going to save the day -……

 

[Liveonce]

Bugger.. just looked at the cost of 6kg of bismuth to replace the no6 lead in my slab of 410 subsonics (kindly gifted to me) £300 + delivery. Think the old norica bolt action may be heading to the scrapper

don’t scrap it hand it in at the local police station, cost nothing but gives them the pain of disposing of it after all it’s as the result of the government action you need to scrap it, lots of us will likely be doing like wise my 9mm garden gun for one.

 

[User00056]

Some numbers will be different there will be millions of plastic wads littering the countryside

And how long d'you reckon it'll be before some bright spark decides to raise the question of copper toxicity in grazing livestock?

 

[Trickyd66]

don’t scrap it hand it in at the local police station, cost nothing but gives them the pain of disposing of it after all it’s as the result of the government action you need to scrap it, lots of us will likely be doing like wise my 9mm garden gun for one.

Don't worry, that is the plan,. Not going to pay for disposal!
Would really like to be able to keep using it as moderated it serves a useful purpose, but at over a quid a pop just to replace the lead in existing factory ammo it ain't worth keeping.

On the bright side, if section 2 go to section 1 in the next 3 years, I might get a 1 for 1 on another rifle

 

[Liveonce]

And how long d'you reckon it'll be before some bright spark decides to raise the question of copper toxicity in grazing livestock?

There will no copper for ammunition the global demand for EV car charging points will need it all

 

[Apthorpe]

The Government has announced plans to implement restrictions on the sale and use of lead ammunition in England, Scotland and Wales.

Today’s announcement confirms that the Government plans to introduce legislation to restrict lead ammunition by summer 2026, with a further three-year transition period running until 2029.

BASC response to announcement:

BASC response to government announcement on lead ammunition ban

Read BASC's statement in response to the Government's announcement regarding a ban on the sale and use of lead ammunition.

basc.org.uk

Guardian article with quotes from BASC, CA and others:

Lead ammunition to be banned for hunting and shooting in England, Scotland and Wales

Exclusive: Restrictions on ammunition containing toxic metal to be phased in over three years from 2026

www.theguardian.com

I’m a little confused. In this announcement, BASC is reported to be supportive of banning lead ammunition and aware of an impending lead ban for years, but has been repeatedly assuring its members that it was opposed to such a ban and was committed to opposing any further restrictions. How does BASC account for giving mutually incompatible messages to different audiences - effectively assuring members it was representing their interests while working with regulators to oppose shooters’ interests?

 

[Liveonce]

I’m a little confused. In this announcement, BASC is reported to be supportive of banning lead ammunition and aware of an impending lead ban for years, but has been repeatedly assuring its members that it was opposed to such a ban and was committed to opposing any further restrictions. How does BASC account for giving mutually incompatible messages to different audiences - effectively assuring members it was representing their interests while working with regulators to oppose shooters’ interests?

They speak with forked tongue, same reason their council meeting minutes on lead were inconfidence.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

What exactly is the problem with the 243 and other small calibres such as the 223 with non lead bullets.

The only issue with the 243 was the 100gn min bullet weight that used to be the case in Scotland. This was reduced to 80gn a while ago. There are plenty of options available that meet the legal minimum energy requirements, especially that most 80gn loads have more energy than 100gn loads.

Yes I suppose if you have chosen to shorten your barrel to 16” and compensated with a faster burning powder then you might struggle to meet min energy requirements with any 80gn load whether its lead or copper.

The expense. You keep banging on about lead free but im going to presume you shoot a few deer that all go in to the larder.

What about fox control and corvid control? Especially those corvids that won't come in within shot gun range? What about plinking and ringing gongs?

What about general practice?

None of the above are economical to do with lead free. Absolutely zero. I'll take my PRC and have that as a lead free rifle only (not voluntarily I may add because it completely defies the point of owning it) but my 243 is used for Absolutely everything.

What about us guys who literally just enjoy all aspects of shooting from rabbits to anything else. You're so concentrated on you and your beliefs that not once have you considered anyone else who actually shoots. You are the problem.

 

[Dave_45]

always assuming you can afford copper bullets

US will raise tariffs on copper to 50%, Trump says

Similar threats are looming over pharmaceuticals, lumber and semiconductors.

www.bbc.co.uk

Barnes work fine for me, I prefer them over any British offering , currently using ttsx 55gr

I would go back to yew tree if I had too, I just find them very explosive

 

[hendrix's rifle]

You have 3 years to use up your stocks of lead ammunition, after that you have very limited options.
If you follow the EU REACH proposals ( and you seem to be in lock step with them ) the sale, use and possession of prohibited lead ammunition will become illegal after the transition period.
Expect regular checks of game on dealers racks to monitor progress during the transition period and expect more monitoring post transition period with questions being asked and possibly prosecutions to follow.
You’ll probably get away with using lead if you keep quiet and just eat the stuff yourself, but the commercial sector will transition.
To those of you threatening to buy .22 centre fires specifically to shoot deer with lead ammunition post ban, I ask why?
Do you really think that a hot .22 using lead will perform better than a slightly larger caliber using non lead?
I shot deer with hot .22’s for over 20 years, they come with serious drawbacks, especially for the 3 larger species.

Yes, head shoot and they all die. They're thin skinned game, were not talking about cape buffalo or elephant are we. Stick a 22lr in the right spot and they will also die...

Better yet, just get a long dog and get rid of the shooting altogether

 

[Heym SR20]

Any word of compensation for users of guns that non lead alternatives are not available for or likely to be? Eg 9mm flobart, and older 410s. (Or is it possible to empty the lead shot from 410 subsonics, replace with bismuth, and re crimp ?

With the likes of the 28 bore and 410, cheap steel shot cartridges not yet readily available in the UK. They are however available in other markets such Denmark and the US.

In the US a 410 loaded with tungsten shot is the new darling of Turkey hunters.

Currently in the UK Lyalvale do make a bismuth load in 28 and 410 3”. Expensive yes, but no more so than a 12 bore bismuth load.

For the 2 and 2 1/2” 410 it is currently a hand loading proposition, and even with Bismuth costs are not horrible.

Given that volume of sales of 410 and 28 bore cartridges are small compared to 12 and 28, UK manufacturers haven’t yet bothered to introduce other options to the market.

As for the 9mm garden gun, cartridges are similar price to 410. And are they really used in large volumes by any one. Given that most available seem to be European brands and lead bans are pending or in place - will they bother loading non toxic pellets, or will the 9mm Flobert fade away like many other obsolete cartridges. 100 years ago 14 bore, 24 bore shotgun and rook rifle cartridges were still catalogued. The 244 H&H was all the rage with deer stalkers and plains game hunters. Now they are not.

Here’s what I will do with my little old English double 410. I will enjoy it on clays till I have used up my stock of 410 cartridges. I might start loading Bismuth, but I have other guns to shoot game with that I also enjoy and they shoot steel very well. These are 80 and 100 year old 2 1/2” chambered 12 and 16 bore. I have been using for a while.
With the 410, cartridges are more expensive that 12 bore, so they are not really a cheap option to shoot for high volume clays.

Currently there is a huge premium on 410 side by sides of all types. Typically twice what you pay for a similar 12 bore gun.

Given the impending doom all these old English 410’s in wonderful unfired condition will become worthless and I will open up a retirement home for them. I might even go and buy a kg of No7 Bismuth shot to feed them with.

Meanwhile my own Jeffery 410 has quite pitted barrels - I rescued it. There was an article in the Double Gun Journal about converting a double 410 into little double rifle - 22 Hornet - mmmm

 

[Dunwaters]

Yes, head shoot and they all die. They're thin skinned game, were not talking about cape buffalo or elephant are we. Stick a 22lr in the right spot and they will also die...

Very true. But I personally don’t see the caliber restrictions changing to permit it anytime soon.

Better yet, just get a long dog and get rid of the shooting altogether

Different sport, you may need to amend your national legislation.
Given that theres a sizeable portion of some ethnicities already doing it, you may be able to claim that it is of cultural significance to the community.

 

[Trickyd66]

With the likes of the 28 bore and 410, cheap steel shot cartridges not yet readily available in the UK. They are however available in other markets such Denmark and the US.

In the US a 410 loaded with tungsten shot is the new darling of Turkey hunters.

Currently in the UK Lyalvale do make a bismuth load in 28 and 410 3”. Expensive yes, but no more so than a 12 bore bismuth load.

For the 2 and 2 1/2” 410 it is currently a hand loading proposition, and even with Bismuth costs are not horrible.

Given that volume of sales of 410 and 28 bore cartridges are small compared to 12 and 28, UK manufacturers haven’t yet bothered to introduce other options to the market.

As for the 9mm garden gun, cartridges are similar price to 410. And are they really used in large volumes by any one. Given that most available seem to be European brands and lead bans are pending or in place - will they bother loading non toxic pellets, or will the 9mm Flobert fade away like many other obsolete cartridges. 100 years ago 14 bore, 24 bore shotgun and rook rifle cartridges were still catalogued. The 244 H&H was all the rage with deer stalkers and plains game hunters. Now they are not.

Here’s what I will do with my little old English double 410. I will enjoy it on clays till I have used up my stock of 410 cartridges. I might start loading Bismuth, but I have other guns to shoot game with that I also enjoy and they shoot steel very well. These are 80 and 100 year old 2 1/2” chambered 12 and 16 bore. I have been using for a while.
With the 410, cartridges are more expensive that 12 bore, so they are not really a cheap option to shoot for high volume clays.

Currently there is a huge premium on 410 side by sides of all types. Typically twice what you pay for a similar 12 bore gun.

Given the impending doom all these old English 410’s in wonderful unfired condition will become worthless and I will open up a retirement home for them. I might even go and buy a kg of No7 Bismuth shot to feed them with.

Meanwhile my own Jeffery 410 has quite pitted barrels - I rescued it. There was an article in the Double Gun Journal about converting a double 410 into little double rifle - 22 Hornet - mmmm

All fine, but my aging Norica 3 shot 410 is only used with subsonic cartridges for areas that are noise sensitive. The marked preasure ratings are touch and go for lead, let alone steel (that's before the choke effect)
It doesn't get a huge amount of use so I may bite the bullet and reload any remaining lead cartridges with bismuth when the ban comes in.

 

[LuckyEddie]

Reaction in Rewilding Scotland FB page.

 

[enfieldspares]

Currently there is a huge premium on 410 side by sides of all types. Typically twice what you pay for a similar 12 bore gun.

It will indeed be interesting to see how the prices of these, at auction, now track. The realised prices of "best" English guns has already been downwards for some two or three years. As I have said previously the price I got for my single Boss when I sold it in December 2021 would now almost buy a pair of them. Coincidentally I took for it just under £5,000 in cash (bank transfer) AND a AYA .410" No4 ejector that then had a price tag of £1,400.

As my late father said "first loss is always the easiest to bear" and I'd advise others of my age, born 1957, with best English guns to realise what value they have before the ever increasing trickle reaches a deluge and these things see the same drop in value against past worth as have done side by side boxlock non-ejector guns. Read that writing in the wall.

This ban on lead won't affect the "big bag" boys as the add-on cost of bismuth vs the cost per bird is maybe less than 3% of the cost of the bird. What it will affect is the person who realised their desire to own a best London gun to use not only on a regular basis on the small under one hundred bird shoot but also out of season for the mere pleasure of putting fifty cartridges through it twice a month on clay pigeons.

But the Americans will do nicely as will those other countries where lead shot remains permitted for clay pigeon shooting or, as in New Zealand, for general shooting away from water. The next battle...and have no doubt that it will be coming...will be an attack on the microplastics used in these supposed biodegradable plastic wads.

For all along (aided hugely by the inept and ill thought fellow travelling of BASC and its volte face voluntary call for transition from lead) this has been an attack on shooting and zero, zilch, nada, a concern about wildlife welfare. For if you can't ban shooting by "de jure" means make it effectively unaffordable and you have then a "de facto" equivalent of a ban. The result achieved is the same.

 

[Liveonce]

With the likes of the 28 bore and 410, cheap steel shot cartridges not yet readily available in the UK. They are however available in other markets such Denmark and the US.

In the US a 410 loaded with tungsten shot is the new darling of Turkey hunters.

Please define cheap.

Tungsten shot is being used by home loaders in the U.K. in the .410 typically 2mm diameter so lots of pellets, for wildfowling. .410 as 14gms is typical load so no point using a 12ga. But they are certainly not a cheap cartridge.

Good to see you look to the future for home loading, let’s hope the very few business that supply the components within the u.k. are still in businesses in 2029 as apparently one RFD a week on average is closing.

 

[Heym SR20]

The expense. You keep banging on about lead free but im going to presume you shoot a few deer that all go in to the larder.

What about fox control and corvid control? Especially those corvids that won't come in within shot gun range? What about plinking and ringing gongs?

What about general practice?

None of the above are economical to do with lead free. Absolutely zero. I'll take my PRC and have that as a lead free rifle only (not voluntarily I may add because it completely defies the point of owning it) but my 243 is used for Absolutely everything.

What about us guys who literally just enjoy all aspects of shooting from rabbits to anything else. You're so concentrated on you and your beliefs that not once have you considered anyone else who actually shoots. You are the problem.

Expense - really?? How much do you spend on diesel, digital optics, clothing, tyres, new rifles, range fees etc. etc.

Ammo for any rifle is expensive. Cheapest 223 FMJ ammo I can find is now £35 a box of 50 cartridges. Lead bulleted 223 cartridges suitable for live quarry are well over £1 a shot. With any sort of premium bullet, £2 a shot. I recently paid over £60 for 50 Winchester 22 Hornet cartridges with very basic soft point bullets.

I reload. With my 243 or 7mm I am paying £50 to £60 for 50 lead free bullets. That’s just over £1 a bullet.

A basic lead bullet is about 50p a bullet. Non expanding monolithic training bullets are about the same price as lead bullets. Admittedly they are harder to come buy, and not available in all calibres and bullet weights. But where they are available they mimic the trajectory of the hunting bullets.

The serious target and gong shooters I know are running premium lead cored bullets - these are getting on for £2 a bullet.


Costs of primers and powder are still the same.

 

[M@tt]

Can anyone point me to any actual evidence of the lead from shooting being a problem?
Other than the usual LEAD = BAD .

And air gun pellets are exempt because air gun shooters will not obey any law, and it will be impossible to police, according to the initial draft proposal to the .gov - so rifle and shotgun shooters are too law abiding and will blindly follow any law, it seems.

 

[JockStalk]

So if a person was to shoot a deer in the lug, how would they know whether this new law had been broken?

 

[enfieldspares]

I think that .410" as the weight of shot is small will now become very much cost effective as a bismuth home loading proposal. I was fortunate to bite the bullet (apologies for the mixed metaphor if it is such) and buy a secondhand MEC 600 in .410" at Scotarms some time ago and a .410" MEC Supersizer from Pigeonwatch last month.

It had been my hope that these would remain the mere doorstops that they presently are and a ban on lead would not come. So again for .410" owners (and maybe 28 bore and 16 bore owners) I'd urge purchase of such tools while they remain relatively unsought after. I also predict that for the vermin shooter on woodpigeons and corvids that there will be an explosion (again apologies for the metaphor) in s2 self-loading shotgun numbers.