Advice – Buying vs Building a .404 Jeffery Rifle

[Selous]

Pretty - looks like a Mayfair action not a proper Mauser. Bit too polished, not a working tool. Smithson rings are a nice touch, although not the most reliable locking function at these calibres

Here’s what a 404 should look like - Mauser Oberndorf Custom Type

Nice but the stock has too much drop. Straight stocks like the Gary Cane stock above manage recoil so much better…. And there will be recoil!

 

[sh1kar]

Hasn’t Ron Wharton passed away?

Several years ago sadly but his partner Margarita maintains the business

 

[Selous]

Several years ago sadly but his partner Margarita maintains the business

Ok, thanks I didn’t realise the business was still going. What is it they do now? Is it retail of fine guns or do they still make bespoke rifles?

 

[HonestJohn]

Nice but the stock has too much drop. Straight stocks like the Gary Cane stock above manage recoil so much better…. And there will be recoil!

I personally prefer the older style stocks for open sights, i guess it depends how you shoot as well. We are all different. I lost a filling regulating my 404 and snapped a set of quad sticks.

Didn’t take long to make me realise these rifles, you don’t shoot prone, not off the bench, and ideally not even off sticks!

 

[sh1kar]

Ok, thanks I didn’t realise the business was still going. What is it they do now? Is it retail of fine guns or do they still make bespoke rifles?

A bit of both together the travel permit etc businesd

 

[Selous]

I personally prefer the older style stocks for open sights, i guess it depends how you shoot as well. We are all different. I lost a filling regulating my 404 and snapped a set of quad sticks.

Didn’t take long to make me realise these rifles, you don’t shoot prone, not off the bench, and ideally not even off sticks!

Haha, you aren’t wrong there! I zeroed a red dot sight on an 8lb .458 win mag from prone. After shot number 6 I and my collar bone were very pleased to be done!!

 

[Dunwaters]

Personally I’d buy one, big bores are a regular feature at auctions and because theres not much of a market for them nowadays they tend to be reasonably priced.
They also tend to be in good condition with low round counts, very few people enjoy plinking with something that starts with a 4 and has a couple of extra digits too.
You could pick up something really nice from a competent maker for half the cost of a new build and with no waiting period.

 

[Kalahari]

Pretty - looks like a Mayfair action not a proper Mauser. Bit too polished, not a working tool. Smithson rings are a nice touch, although not the most reliable locking function at these calibres

Here’s what a 404 should look like - Mauser Oberndorf Custom Type

Sadly the ad is not really correct, it claims to be an original magnum mauser action but it has a thumb cut out, so it isn't. Looks nice but I wouldn't trust an advert with an untruth in it.

David.

 

[rohroh]

No books

The 375 you mentioned will be the easy option for sure. Barrel, get feed lips and ramps right, follower angles to take the new case, extractor and ejector (one is rimmed, the other is not). And a new barrel

Document the build not "books". A brief moment of sausage fingers

 

[rohroh]

Possibly get a CZ550 (Safety moves how you expect it to.) in a magnum action, sort the feed out and spend the rest of the money on a plain straight grained stock that really, really fits you.
Scrumbag of this parish has one in (I think) a commercial FN action.

David.

I don't understand what you mean by "Safety moves how you expect it to."

 

[rohroh]

Just a thought but there are some CZ550 rifles for sale in the Holts sealed bid auction if the sale hasn’t already happened. They look quite new and the .416 Rigby is a lovely old round that is similar ballistically or slightly better than the .404. You could then get it fettled for form and function and restocked by Gary cane so it looks like this one off his website.
Not a .404 but the .416 is much easier to get ammunition for which is also a valid consideration. The same could be said for the .416 Remington, .375 H&H and .458 Win Mag and Lott.

I completely agree with you. I've even got an offer of a 416 that is nice and I was tempted. However, I'm an awkward bugger and want a 404 J.

The completed gun battery will include a either a 275 Rigby, 308 or a 30.06 along with a 9.3, 375 H&H (for when I can't use the 9.3) and a 404 Jeffery.

I've started to collect bits and pieces for hand loading the 404J, always try to get any brass and bullets I can get my hands. I've had an informative chat with Pete at MME bullets he produces the Caribou Bonded BT in 423.

 

[Kalahari]

I don't understand what you mean by "Safety moves how you expect it to."

Unlike the 600 series and 527 CZs the safety moves forward to fire rather than backwards, which seems counter intuitive and may lose you time you can ill afford with a DG rifle. Then again it may not worry you.

Regards,

David.

 

[HonestJohn]

Sadly the ad is not really correct, it claims to be an original magnum mauser action but it has a thumb cut out, so it isn't. Looks nice but I wouldn't trust an advert with an untruth in it.

David.

You are right in that it’s a standard length m98 with single rear square bridge - those were pretty rare. I perceived the ad to advertise it as a magnum calibre. The bolt handle is of course also not original, it’s been recessed into the stock.

This is in my book how a proper 404 should look - note the mag box

 

[Heym SR20]

I don't understand what you mean by "Safety moves how you expect it to."

In many of the older Brnos you pull back the safety to fire, in the same motion as you would cock a hammer. It’s a very good robust safety.

Most other firearms you push the safety forward to fire.

So view the old Brno / CZ safety as not a good idea as its different to most other rifles. It is, but once you are used to it, it is perfectly natural. In the same way that cocking a hammer gun is perfectly natural.

 

[HonestJohn]

The zg47 is probably the best safety ever made, and engages with the actual firing pin when in safe mode. If there was one gun I’d have to walk in front of loaded, that would be it

 

[Heym SR20]

The zg47 is probably the best safety ever made, and engages with the actual firing pin when in safe mode. If there was one gun I’d have to walk in front of loaded, that would be it

Agreed - those BRNO’s and CZs were pretty the rifle that most professional guides and PHs were using in Zambia and Zimbabwe in the 1990’s. There were a few old British built mausers knocking about, but the Brno’s are what most carried. A guide would always carry with one up the spout when in the bush, and the safety solidly locked the firing pin. And thumbing the safety back is quicker and easier than moving the flag safety from one side as is the case on the Mauser 98.

In the bush the primary need for a rifle is for protecting clients against grumpy animals. And if you need the rifle as an elephant comes out at 20 yards, you need it fast. In the bush you often have limited visibility and elephant and buffalo are easily hidden and don’t like being surprised. However, if you shot an animal in self defence and not on a hunting licence paperwork was huge and there had be powder burns on the animal. Probably less paperwork if the tourists you were guiding on a photographic safari got made into toe jam.

Getting back to the 404 - a good introductory article on this cartridge

The .404 Jeffrey

Calibre Description and SpecificationsThe .404 Jeffery is a large calibre rimless bottleneck cartridge that was originally designed with the dangerous game of A

africanxmag.com

 

[welshwarrior]

404 Jeff the calibre of the knowledge gentleman in Africa.

Good Mauser action buy a gold barrel and straight stock to manage recoil. Mine was built on an FN Mauser and work great for years now solid due to health issues so won’t be shooting a proper rifle again.

Ian Sweetman or Lee Butler would be my choices to build one today.

 

[rohroh]

@Heym SR20 that is a great read. Thank you.

I managed to speak to Ian Sweetman at the game fair and will be visiting his workshops soon. I'll also get in touch with Lee Butler. Thanks @welshwarrior. I may also have found a number of barrelled actions chambered in 404 Jeffery. I'm waiting on more details and photos.

Any recommendations on sourcing brass, bullets and load data for the 404?

 

[Heym SR20]

@Heym SR20 that is a great read. Thank you.

I managed to speak to Ian Sweetman at the game fair and will be visiting his workshops soon. I'll also get in touch with Lee Butler. Thanks @welshwarrior. I may also have found a number of barrelled actions chambered in 404 Jeffery. I'm waiting on more details and photos.

Any recommendations on sourcing brass, bullets and load data for the 404?

Ammo, bullets and brass - I would have though any of the big game rifle emporiums will help. I do know that @Edinburgh Rifles rifles has plenty of big bore bullets in stock of various types. What they have in 404 I don’t know.

 

[welshwarrior]

@Heym SR20 that is a great read. Thank you.

I managed to speak to Ian Sweetman at the game fair and will be visiting his workshops soon. I'll also get in touch with Lee Butler. Thanks @welshwarrior. I may also have found a number of barrelled actions chambered in 404 Jeffery. I'm waiting on more details and photos.

Any recommendations on sourcing brass, bullets and load data for the 404?

I used Hornady in the end I found it very good on game and accurate so not worth developing a load against for the amount of rounds you’ll fire.