Stalking for the freezer and avoiding supermarkets

[grimstone]

As above, well vac packed venison will last plenty long enough for you to worry about seasons. failing that, I'm sure muntjac will be with you soon enough

We haven't had to buy beef for about 2 years now, do swap venison/equipment/vehicle repairs for cod fat, veg and logs though. Not very often

 

[Bowland blades]

Been there , done that ! The entire family and even friends and neighbours will end up not eating the stuff . No more than one venison meal a week at the maximum is as much people will stand after a year .
My Dogs never leave it but too often and they have the runs all over the kennels

 

[VSS]

Been there , done that ! The entire family and even friends and neighbours will end up not eating the stuff . No more than one venison meal a week at the maximum is as much people will stand after a year .
My Dogs never leave it but too often and they have the runs all over the kennels

Speak for yourself!
We eat venison most days of the week, and often more than once a day.
Been that way for a number of years now, and I can't see any signs that anyone feels like they've had enough of it.

 

[gelert]

My wife and I have pretty much substituted beef with venison for the last 5 years since I sold the last of my Dexter's. I am lucky to have 4 of the 6 species on my permissions and we have venison at least 3 times a week. Giving up the game on Facebook always has carcasses for sale, obviously depending where you are in the country, but it offers a cheaper solution to buy a nice big hind or a fallow in the skin than paying for a stalk.

 

[Mike1979]

Speak for yourself!
We eat venison most days of the week, and often more than once a day.
Been that way for a number of years now, and I can't see any signs that anyone feels like they've had enough of it.

We probably eat venison 2 or 3 days, with home reared pork 2 or 3 days and maybe have chicken once a week just as a change...or may have a meat free meal ...though I generally prefer a pork chop to go with it

 

[VSS]

Curious on this one Tim. Is this based on financial return - i.e. a fallow is the best size to optimise the higher value cuts in the least butchery time? I've got several farm shops and butchers I supply whole deer to and none of them want fallow - they all like reds as more meat on them. I dropped a 120kg stag at a butcher yesterday and he was chuffed to bits! Personally, I'd rather butcher a fallow any day!!

From the OP's perspective, if it's meat-per-cost-of-stalk then bigger the better as long as you aren't paying a premium for antlers. Assuming the stalk breaks down as follows (very rough numbers - prices vary massively, yield varies massively etc):

• £100 outing fee
• £100 shot fee
• £2/kg carcass - assume 50% yield (which is prob on the high side for home butchery)

If you take home a 30kg fallow it'll cost you £260 and you'll get c.15kg meat (£17/kg)
If you take home a 65kg red it'll cost you £330 and you'll get c. 32kg meat (£10/kg)

It's based on a number of factors, not just financial.
Yes, optimum yield for time and labour input is one of them. We all know muntjac are very tasty deer, but the amount of fiddling about required for such a small amount of meat is barely justified. At the other end of the scale are reds, which will of course yield more meat, but are big things to move about and might require equipment (hoist, etc) beyond what a domestic kitchen has. And there's extra work on a red to take the cuts down to a size that the average small family might want to use. Every time you pick up your knife it adds to the "cost", whether real or hypothetical.
So really, that leaves 3 species in the running for "most economical": roe, sika and fallow.
Sika can be discounted straight away as they're not everywhere, and if a lot of travelling is involved in filling the freezer it's not economical at all.
And then there's quality. You need quality if you want repeat customers (or in this case, if you want your family to keep on eating it). I spoke with a number of chefs and restaurant owners, some of whom were themselves stalkers, and without exception the only venison they wanted to put on their menu was fallow. It gave them the best balance of ease of handling, size of cuts, eating quality and cost. They definitely did not want red: "too coarse, and too similar in texture to beef. Quality not consistent" was the general consensus. Roe was considered to be of excellent eating quality, but a bit on the small side to be really cost effective, and excessive % waste from shot damage.
As for it being best from a pricket or young doe, that's the ones that not only give the best eating quality, but also the least amount of waste during butchering, and in order to be economical waste must be minimised.

(I haven't mentioned CWD in this appraisal, because they taste nasty ).

Incidentally, I think your figures are a little bit out. A 30kg (larder weight) fallow pricket or young doe will yield close to 20kg of saleable lean meat, with a retail value in the region of £350
They are a very economical carcass to work with, in so many respects. And there's lots of them.

 

[75]

It's based on a number of factors, not just financial.
Yes, optimum yield for time and labour input is one of them. We all know muntjac are very tasty deer, but the amount of fiddling about required for such a small amount of meat is barely justified. At the other end of the scale are reds, which will of course yield more meat, but are big things to move about and might require equipment (hoist, etc) beyond what a domestic kitchen has. And there's extra work on a red to take the cuts down to a size that the average small family might want to use. Every time you pick up your knife it adds to the "cost", whether real or hypothetical.
So really, that leaves 3 species in the running for "most economical": roe, sika and fallow.
Sika can be discounted straight away as they're not everywhere, and if a lot of travelling is involved in filling the freezer it's not economical at all.
And then there's quality. You need quality if you want repeat customers (or in this case, if you want your family to keep on eating it). I spoke with a number of chefs and restaurant owners, some of whom were themselves stalkers, and without exception the only venison they wanted to put on their menu was fallow. It gave them the best balance of ease of handling, size of cuts, eating quality and cost. They definitely did not want red: "too coarse, and too similar in texture to beef. Quality not consistent" was the general consensus. Roe was considered to be of excellent eating quality, but a bit on the small side to be really cost effective, and excessive % waste from shot damage.
As for it being best from a pricket or young doe, that's the ones that not only give the best eating quality, but also the least amount of waste during butchering, and in order to be economical waste must be minimised.

(I haven't mentioned CWD in this appraisal, because they taste nasty ).

Incidentally, I think your figures are a little bit out. A 30kg (larder weight) fallow pricket or young doe will yield close to 20kg of saleable lean meat, with a retail value in the region of £350
They are a very economical carcass to work with, in so many respects. And there's lots of them.

Thanks - appreciate the comments. I guess the butchers / farm shops I deal with are used to handling sides of beef etc so different to a restaurant kitchen. No one else wants them whole though - butchered and vac packed for domestic stuff only!

The "quality not consistent" with reds is an is an interesting one - I regularly get good feedback on mine but they do have access to a lot of decent grazing / pasture and are quite different in both texture and flavour to some I've had off the hill in Scotland with poor grazing. I guess you do get hill fallow in Scotland but they are more usually a lowland species with good grazing. I wonder if it's more an environment thing rather than species?

I'd possible get 66% yield on a head shot animal but mine are usually chest shot and often through a shoulder so that could account for the difference.

 

[VSS]

Thanks - appreciate the comments. I guess the butchers / farm shops I deal with are used to handling sides of beef etc so different to a restaurant kitchen. No one else wants them whole though - butchered and vac packed for domestic stuff only!

The theme of the thread was primarily relating to home / small-scale butchery, where large size may be more of an issue.

The "quality not consistent" with reds is an is an interesting one - I regularly get good feedback on mine but they do have access to a lot of decent grazing / pasture and are quite different in both texture and flavour to some I've had off the hill in Scotland with poor grazing. I guess you do get hill fallow in Scotland but they are more usually a lowland species with good grazing. I wonder if it's more an environment thing rather than species?

I think the chefs would have been more used to buying in from a wholesaler, who in turn would have been sourcing carcasses from different regions I suppose. Plus there's a lot of reds shot at a time of year that's not conducive to quality.

I'd possible get 66% yield on a head shot animal but mine are usually chest shot and often through a shoulder so that could account for the difference.

The first fallow I ever did a detailed breakdown of to assess carcass yield was chest shot. It was a young doe.
iirc (without checking my records) she weighed 30kg larder weight and I got 19.5kg of saleable lean meat (ie, all boned out).
(Incidentally, a lamb of similar weight yields about 10kg all boned out).

These are the kind of reasons why I chose to keep fallow in my park, not reds.
(Plus the fencing was cheaper for fallow )

(I should just also add that I have skinned and butchered all 6 deer species, so I'm making a reasonably educated comparison).

 

[weblyish]

Been there , done that ! The entire family and even friends and neighbours will end up not eating the stuff . No more than one venison meal a week at the maximum is as much people will stand after a year .
My Dogs never leave it but too often and they have the runs all over the kennels

not in our house

I occasionally buy a nice TBone or Tomahawk steak for a change but our day to day red meat is Venison and 2 teenage boys means we can get through plenty and there's no complaints

 

[User00056]

Speak for yourself!
We eat venison most days of the week, and often more than once a day

We're the same. I'm the cook in our house, and I tend to batch cook venison lasagna, bolognaise, and my own casserole that I use either on it's own, or in a quick pie. We also have plenty of steaks, and loin. Steaks are so versatile! They can be used as they are, sliced for fajitas, or diced for chislic (cubes of venison, grilled on a skewer, and seasoned with whatever you like. It's South Carolina specialty, I believe. It's delicious!) And a grilled roe loin served with fragrant basmati rice and a peppercorn sauce is so simple, but very hard to beat!

 

[Heym SR20]

I shoot many fewer Roe theses days as having near to ground managed by FLS has meant numbers have dramatically reduced, and this year my success rate of even just seeing deer is very much reduced. I would probably by now shot 10 / 12 roe bucks by this time of year. I have shot 3.

Certainly a red deer, especially a large lowland one gives you an awful lot of venison. A Roe gives a family of three or four a decent meal off each haunch, with some left overs. A loin gives one to two portions of medallions, and shoulders / neck another two or three meals depending on how it was shot and what you do with them.

Another friend has a small holding on the West Coast. He reckons on two to four good sized red / sika keeps him in red meat for family of four for most of the year.

 

[Dazb1967]

Speak for yourself!
We eat venison most days of the week, and often more than once a day.
Been that way for a number of years now, and I can't see any signs that anyone feels like they've had enough of it.

We are the same, We had venison twice on Sunday, Sausages in the morning and Neck joint in the afternoon,
Since last Saturday there is only one day (Tuesday) when we didn't have venison, Curry, Stew, Steak, Sausages, Neck joint, We are having Venison bolognaise tomorrow and it's been like for a long time now.

 

[Mickeydredd]

We're the same. I'm the cook in our house, and I tend to batch cook venison lasagna, bolognaise, and my own casserole that I use either on it's own, or in a quick pie. We also have plenty of steaks, and loin. Steaks are so versatile! They can be used as they are, sliced for fajitas, or diced for chislic (cubes of venison, grilled on a skewer, and seasoned with whatever you like.

I'm the same, cooked 2kg of mince last week to make two large lasagnes and then split them into portions in foil containers.

When I butcher a Red, I often do lots of haunch steaks and vac pac them knowing I can use them as steaks or slice them for fajita, which I usually have a couple of times per week.

 

[moeggesit]

You go through a lot of red meat a week, the easiest step would be to reduce that!

I find vacuum packed stuff keeps well in the chest freezer for a few years. Filling a big freezer as and when opportunities arise should be fine.

It may be a lot for one person but it’s not much for a family, looks like 3 meals for a family of 4.

 

[VSS]

Another friend has a small holding on the West Coast. He reckons on two to four good sized red / sika keeps him in red meat for family of four for most of the year.

That's borderline vegetarian.

 

[Mickeydredd]

The "quality not consistent" with reds is an is an interesting one - I regularly get good feedback on mine but they do have access to a lot of decent grazing / pasture and are quite different in both texture and flavour to some I've had off the hill in Scotland with poor grazing. I guess you do get hill fallow in Scotland but they are more usually a lowland species with good grazing. I wonder if it's more an environment thing rather than species?

We see on here regularly in the polls for tastiest species of venison that Reds are generally ranked very low on the list.

I genuinely find a young Red or hind the best venison, whether cooked as a steak or whatever. I wasn't taken by fallow at all, yet it always ranks well. Same with Sika.

 

[VSS]

We see on here regularly in the polls for tastiest species of venison that Reds are generally ranked very low on the list.

I genuinely find a young Red or hind the best venison, whether cooked as a steak or whatever. I wasn't taken by fallow at all, yet it always ranks well. Same with Sika.

I confess, the last two times I processed a red, the whole lot went into burgers and sausages. Didn't bother with steaks or anything else. The eating quality just isn’t there for me. But we all have our own tastes, I guess.

 

[User00056]

I confess, the last two times I processed a red, the whole lot went into burgers and sausages. Didn't bother with steaks or anything else. The eating quality just isn’t there for me

I used to regularly have people tell me they didn't like venison, and my response was invariably that I bet they'd had red. I agree with you, in most cases I'd turn my nose up at red deer venison. I once had a summer staggie though, and it was very good indeed. Not good enough for me to seek it out again however. Sika, I found absolutely superb on the few occasions I've shot one. Not tasted fallow, so I can't comment on that. I predominantly shoot roe, and I find them to be consistently superb throughout the year. That would be my venison of choice

 

[Ratcatcher]

I reckon the problem with reds is, a lot are shot in the rut or trophy's when they are at they're worst for eating, not sure it makes any difference with roe, not to my taste anyway, can't say with fallow I haven't shot enough?

 

[User00056]

I reckon the problem with reds is, a lot are shot in the rut or trophy's when they are at they're worst for eating, not sure it makes any difference with roe, not to my taste anyway, can't say with fallow I haven't shot enough?

Absolutely agree with you!!! I'd lay money that most reds are shot for the head, or as a cull in the case of hinds (and for both, potentially badly, and full of adrenaline and lactic acid), and left for the gamedealer to pick up. Zero interest at the point of shooting as to their suitability for meat, and interested only the in price per kilo once the client has their trophy. And the dealer then compounds the problem by processing them into the food chain regardless, safe in the knowledge that their '48% venison' shiteburger will be be bought by supermarket consumers who have little knowledge of how good venison should be. And we all know who the villain is, at least in Scotland.

Tell me I'm wrong?