UK Forestry Certification and non lead ammunition

[muddy42]

All, I don't want to turn this into a discussion about lead ammo versus the rest, as this has been done to death.

There are various forestry certification schemes - for example the government one is the UK Forestry Standard (UKFS) and UK Woodland Assurance Standard (UKWAS) is an independent one for "verifying sustainable woodland management."

I have learned that since December 2024, UKWAS 5 has called for non toxic ammo. A transition period may permitted for example where there is a stalking lease in place and a stalking tenant complains that their remit has been changed.

I have searched and this topic has not been covered. Please be aware that this could be the reason behind landowners stopping lead.

PERSONALLY, I see this as UKWAS overstepping its scope. Lead ammo is not yet illegal and has nothing to do with growing wood. Unless they see a risk of lead getting into timber (which shouldn't happen anyway) and if it did copper would be just as harmful. I think this will be a disincentive to certify between now and 2029.

UKFS does not have such a rule.

 

[co’den]

It tells you in the UKWAS guidance why they require use of non toxic ammo. UKWAS 5.0 is still under review so it might change.

 

[User00056]

As an aside, isn't copper toxic to trees?

 

[co’den]

As an aside, isn't copper toxic to trees?

A few bullets won’t kill a tree but steel will kill a saw blade. Sawmillers don’t want to see any contamination in wood at all. However, from a practical point of view, stone and steel are far worse than copper and lead.

 

[slider]

UKFS and UKWAS are different beasts.

The UKFS defines the government requirements for forestry in the UK. It provides a basis for regulation and monitoring, including national and international reporting.

UKWAS is a voluntary assurance scheme in a similar vien to farm assurance schemes (and presumably other industries have similar).

The reasoning is given in UKWAS guidance, section 2.12.2.
https://ukwas.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/UKWAS-5.0-2024.pdf

 

[muddy42]

UKFS and UKWAS are different beasts.

The UKFS defines the government requirements for forestry in the UK. It provides a basis for regulation and monitoring, including national and international reporting.

UKWAS is a voluntary assurance scheme in a similar vien to farm assurance schemes (and presumably other industries have similar).

The reasoning is given in UKWAS guidance, section 2.12.2.
https://ukwas.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/UKWAS-5.0-2024.pdf

Exactly. To quote 2.12.1 "Use of non-toxic ammunition will eliminate lead contamination of venison and venison-based food products and the diffuse pollution of lead into the wider environment." In my mind this is the business of HSE, DEFRA, FSA or people like the BDS.

It has nothing to do with timber production or management of forestry. To use your farm assurance example, its like telling the farmer that his wife should drive an electric car.

 

[co’den]

Exactly. To quote 2.12.1 "Use of non-toxic ammunition will eliminate lead contamination of venison and venison-based food products and the diffuse pollution of lead into the wider environment." In my mind this is the business of HSE, DEFRA, FSA or people like the BDS.

It has nothing to do with timber production or management of forestry. To use your farm assurance example, its like telling the farmer that his wife should drive an electric car.

UKWAS is concerned with sustainable woodland management as a whole including deer management. It’s not limited to just timber or management of forestry.

 

[slider]

Exactly. To quote 2.12.1 "Use of non-toxic ammunition will eliminate lead contamination of venison and venison-based food products and the diffuse pollution of lead into the wider environment." In my mind this is the business of HSE, DEFRA, FSA or people like the BDS.

It has nothing to do with timber production or management of forestry. To use your farm assurance example, its like telling the farmer that his wife should drive an electric car.

When I was farming I was pulled up on using old door as a barrier in a cattle shed as the evaluator considered it may contain lead based paint. I'm pretty sure the painted door wasn't old enough to be lead painted but I remember dad loosing calves to lead poisoning in the early 1960's and it was traced to licking flaking paint in these very circumstances.

 

[Dickie]

Forestry commission have required non toxic/ non lead ammo for their leases for quite some time now.

 

[long_range_rob]

Virtue signalling mission creep by desk jockeys in Westminster.

F all we can do about it, King Canute proved that.

 

[Heym SR20]

There are international FSC standards for timber that goes into the market. UKWAS is the UK body that implements these standards for any timber that is grown and wants to meet these international standards so that the timber can be used in building products, furniture etc etc which all meet FSC standards.

The International FSC standards call for the removal of lead ammunition along with many other toxic and harmful substances and practices and UKWAS is simply meeting these international standards.

A forest owner or grower doesn’t have to abide by UKWAS standards - its voluntary. But then the option of selling the timber as certified is not available to the grower if they don’t abide by the standards, and the end wooden products cannot be marked with FSC stamp, or used where this is a requirement. This may or may not affect the overall value and profitability of the timber crop.

 

[Chris Richardson]

A few bullets won’t kill a tree but steel will kill a saw blade. Sawmillers don’t want to see any contamination in wood at all. However, from a practical point of view, stone and steel are far worse than copper and lead.

Indeed one one of my grounds it’s stated in my lease I can’t use steel shot

 

[co’den]

There are international FSC standards for timber that goes into the market. UKWAS is the UK body that implements these standards for any timber that is grown and wants to meet these international standards so that the timber can be used in building products, furniture etc etc which all meet FSC standards.

The International FSC standards call for the removal of lead ammunition along with many other toxic and harmful substances and practices and UKWAS is simply meeting these international standards.

A forest owner or grower doesn’t have to abide by UKWAS standards - it’s voluntary. But then the option of selling the timber as certified is not available to the grower if they don’t abide by the standards, and the end wooden products cannot be marked with FSC stamp, or used where this is a requirement. This may or may not affect the overall value and profitability of the timber crop.

Not sure where you got that interpretation but most of it is incorrect. However, it doesn’t really matter here as the crux of it is that the use of lead will risk the UKWAS accreditation for any given land holding. That means potential loss of market or reduced margins for the landowner.

 

[Heym SR20]

Not sure where you got that interpretation but most of it is incorrect. However, it doesn’t really matter here as the crux of it is that the use of lead will risk the UKWAS accreditation for any given land holding. That means potential loss of market or reduced margins for the landowner.

Have a look at the UKWAS standards and also their website. But as you say, use of lead will risk accreditation for any given land holding.

 

[Chris Richardson]

Not sure where you got that interpretation but most of it is incorrect. However, it doesn’t really matter here as the crux of it is that the use of lead will risk the UKWAS accreditation for any given land holding. That means potential loss of market or reduced margins for the landowner.

He’s normally incorrect but it doesn’t seem to bother him , bless

 

[co’den]

He’s normally incorrect but it doesn’t seem to bother him , bless

Oh

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

All, I don't want to turn this into a discussion about lead ammo versus the rest, as this has been done to death.

There are various forestry certification schemes - for example the government one is the UK Forestry Standard (UKFS) and UK Woodland Assurance Standard (UKWAS) is an independent one for "verifying sustainable woodland management."

I have learned that since December 2024, UKWAS 5 has called for non toxic ammo. A transition period may permitted for example where there is a stalking lease in place and a stalking tenant complains that their remit has been changed.

I have searched and this topic has not been covered. Please be aware that this could be the reason behind landowners stopping lead.

PERSONALLY, I see this as UKWAS overstepping its scope. Lead ammo is not yet illegal and has nothing to do with growing wood. Unless they see a risk of lead getting into timber (which shouldn't happen anyway) and if it did copper would be just as harmful. I think this will be a disincentive to certify between now and 2029.

UKFS does not have such a rule.

It's another example of the worldwide move away lead ammunition, which contains lead, and lead is regarded as toxic in the environment - the rights and wrongs of that can be argued - and as you say not a discussion about lead ammo vs the rest, just a matter of fact as regards political/policy landscape. The shooting section also has conditions on gamebird release and managament including pens and shooting activities. Plenty of opinions on that also.

Here is the document in question:

UKWAS 5.0 now available - UKWAS

The United Kingdom Woodland Assurance Standard (UKWAS) is pleased to share the new UKWAS 5.0 with an effective date of 1st December 2024. UKWAS 5.0 is available here. An MS Word version is also available on request. At this stage, UKWAS 5.0 has only been endorsed by PEFC with the FSC approval...

ukwas.org.uk

 

[Chris Richardson]

It's another example of the worldwide move away lead ammunition, which contains lead, and lead is regarded as toxic in the environment - the rights and wrongs of that can be argued - and as you say not a discussion about lead ammo vs the rest, just a matter of fact as regards political/policy landscape. The shooting section also has conditions on gamebird release and managament including pens and shooting activities. Plenty of opinions on that also.

Here is the document in question:

UKWAS 5.0 now available - UKWAS

The United Kingdom Woodland Assurance Standard (UKWAS) is pleased to share the new UKWAS 5.0 with an effective date of 1st December 2024. UKWAS 5.0 is available here. An MS Word version is also available on request. At this stage, UKWAS 5.0 has only been endorsed by PEFC with the FSC approval...

ukwas.org.uk

But Connor you told us all and mr personally via pm that basc are opposed to lead bans , now you seem to be championing them ? At least you admit it’s political I suppose

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

But Connor you told us all and mr personally via pm that basc are opposed to lead bans , now you seem to be championing them ? At least you admit it’s political I suppose

You have your facts mixed up again. BASC is opposed to lead bans. This thread is about UKWAS and nothing to do with your obsessive unhealthy fixation on BASC.

 

[Chris Richardson]

You have your facts mixed up again. BASC is opposed to lead bans. This thread is about UKWAS and nothing to do with your obsessive unhealthy fixation on BASC.

Not unhealthy at all Connor just calling out hypocrisy as I see it