Register of competent deer stalkers - results?

[Norfolk Deer Search]

You say the problem is from within and I fully agree with you sir as long as folk aren’t happy with their organisation and the decisions they make on their behalf but keep on forking out money for membership then that’s a big problem vote with your wallet as I did I found an organisation that agreed with my views on important issues , insurance didn’t matter to me as I have that separately, I guess some of us have more principles than others

Or even better go it alone like a I did, my own insurance via a different provider now I don’t have to worry or give to hoots about what the shooting organisations think, I have actually thought about putting a post up saying that if I get 5000 from the SD I rejoin BASC and put myself forward for the BASC council, but I’m going to do a little bit of homework before I do that and then speak to some people I know and trust to see if it’s worthwhile because I’ve got a itchy feeling that I won’t even be able to make it that far

 

[Tim.243]

I'm not a wildfowler. However how does being a wildfowler - or indeed a member of a game shooting syndicate - change the points I made?

Yes as your points tar people with the same brush, if you were a wildfowler then your choice of companies' to cover your shooting would be the one most clubs are tied into "BASC"
Also BASC morphed into the business that it is as it from WAGBI with it's core being made up from Wildfowlers

 

[Chris Richardson]

Or even better go it alone like a I did, my own insurance via a different provider now I don’t have to worry or give to hoots about what the shooting organisations think, I have actually thought about putting a post up saying that if I get 5000 from the SD I rejoin BASC and put myself forward for the BASC council, but I’m going to do a little bit of homework before I do that and then speak to some people I know and trust to see if it’s worthwhile because I’ve got a itchy feeling that I won’t even be able to make it that far

my insurance is separate so that’s not an issue for me , I liked the SGAs stance on lead ammunition ( no evidence no change ) so I joined them as I liked the org do it Lee you’ll have my vote

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

my insurance is separate so that’s not an issue for me , I liked the SGAs stance on lead ammunition ( no evidence no change ) so I joined them as I liked the org do it Lee you’ll have my vote

Hells bells vicar and that’s 2

 

[willie_gunn]

Yes as your points tar people with the same brush, if you were a wildfowler then your choice of companies' to cover your shooting would be the one most clubs are tied into "BASC"
Also BASC morphed into the business that it is as it from WAGBI with it's core being made up from Wildfowlers

No-one has forced people to stay with BASC, and WAGBI members have had 44 years since 1981 to find or found another organisation that they feel better reflects their views. Whether through disinterest or inertia, most seem to have stayed.

With a couple of exceptions my points reflect my experience of being voluntarily involved at various levels and in various organisations over the years, both inside the world of shooting and stalking or outside. Sadly most organisation members seem quite happy to stand at the side and criticise, but ask them to take some responsibility or ownership and you'll be crushed in their rush for the door. This just seems to be human nature.

As someone elsewhere neatly has summarised it:

"There was an important job to be done and everybody was sure that somebody would do it. Anybody could have done it, but nobody did it. Somebody got angry about that, because it was everybody’s job. Everybody thought anybody could do it, but nobody realized that everybody wouldn’t do it. It ended up that everybody blamed somebody when nobody did what anybody could have."

 

[Chris Richardson]

No-one has forced people to stay with BASC, and WAGBI members have had 44 years since 1981 to find or found another organisation that they feel better reflects their views. Whether through disinterest or inertia, most seem to have stayed.

With a couple of exceptions my points reflect my experience of being voluntarily involved at various levels and in various organisations over the years, both inside the world of shooting and stalking or outside. Sadly most organisation members seem quite happy to stand at the side and criticise, but ask them to take some responsibility or ownership and you'll be crushed in their rush for the door. This just seems to be human nature.

As someone elsewhere neatly has summarised it:

"There was an important job to be done and everybody was sure that somebody would do it. Anybody could have done it, but nobody did it. Somebody got angry about that, because it was everybody’s job. Everybody thought anybody could do it, but nobody realized that everybody wouldn’t do it. It ended up that everybody blamed somebody when nobody did what anybody could have."

I believe you have it right with disinterest and inertia, earlier in this thread I asked a gentleman why he stayed with basc and what he liked about them , couldn’t answer , I think that says a lot . You get a lot of folk who say “ I like basc “ ask them why and it’s blank stares or get the huff

 

[Tim.243]

No-one has forced people to stay with BASC, and WAGBI members have had 44 years since 1981 to find or found another organisation that they feel better reflects their views. Whether through disinterest or inertia, most seem to have stayed.

With a couple of exceptions my points reflect my experience of being voluntarily involved at various levels and in various organisations over the years, both inside the world of shooting and stalking or outside. Sadly most organisation members seem quite happy to stand at the side and criticise, but ask them to take some responsibility or ownership and you'll be crushed in their rush for the door. This just seems to be human nature.

As someone elsewhere neatly has summarised it:

"There was an important job to be done and everybody was sure that somebody would do it. Anybody could have done it, but nobody did it. Somebody got angry about that, because it was everybody’s job. Everybody thought anybody could do it, but nobody realized that everybody wouldn’t do it. It ended up that everybody blamed somebody when nobody did what anybody could have."

What part of you get your BASC membership with your wildfowling subscription do you not understand!
So wildfowling members who belong to their particular club are tied in with BASC it is quite simple.

Stop padding out your replies with other people quotes it is embarrassing.

Here's how to find a club:

1. 1. Contact BASC:
   The British Association for Shooting and Conservation is the national representative body for wildfowling and can point you to clubs or areas where you can shoot under the Crown's foreshore for free.
   
   

 

[willie_gunn]

What part of you get your BASC membership with your wildfowling subscription do you not understand!
So wildfowling members who belong to their particular club are tied in with BASC it is quite simple.

Stop padding out your replies with other people quotes it is embarrassing.

Here's how to find a club:

1. 1. Contact BASC:
   The British Association for Shooting and Conservation is the national representative body for wildfowling and can point you to clubs or areas where you can shoot under the Crown's foreshore for free.
   

Why would I want to find a wildfowling club, when I don't go wildfowling?

I pay an individual BASC membership, and also get membership for myself and my wife through my game shooting syndicate.

 

[Plitts]

A few years ago, I was on the phone to Martin Edwards, discussing deer management in England. One of my topics (for context, in the south, mainly fallow (and muntjac)) is new landowners with little land-management experience and stalkers who are getting on a bit and starting to avoid shooting wet/steep/tricky ground and creating sanctuaries. How do these new landowners get in touch with reliable people who will actually work to wider landscape deer cull ambitions (rather than just shoot prickets/fondle their portfolio of permissions/nurture a thriving population of deer etc)? And where landowners have long-established stalkers who need help to work effectively, how can they find 'youngsters' who can help with the work without the stalker suffering paranoia of permission-theft?

In my view, the register of stalkers and the mentor scheme were developed to try and link landowners and stalkers up, with a view to both sides benefiting and at the bottom of it all, deer management improving.

For BASC to be taken seriously (and for everyone who looks at shooting deer from a wider perspective than his/her own FAC and permissions), deer management needs to be seen in a strategic context, regionally and by species. BASC would never be taken seriously if everything it did was based on satisfying its members wanting more land and more shooting.

So, here is a situation where BASC has developed a new initiative to try and link landowners with stalkers. How can anyone criticize that? So, some people have registered and they've heard nothing? Is that surprising? These things take time and, in this case, will be landowner led, so will definitely be a slow lead in. It should be seen as a new opportunity, not a life-line. Certainly, I don't see why BASC should take anything than recognition for putting in place one piece of a complicated jigsaw.

This thread was resurrected to ascertain if the scheme is successful a year on (out of curiosity), so far from this thread there has not been anyone that has received a link to a landowner and received stalking, only Willie-Gunn has had an offer and turned it down.
It would great if someone from BASC could give us the facts on this scheme?

Unfortunately, those with an axe to grind about BASC feel the need to comment... please be man/women enough to let BASC members discuss on SD without the constant bashing of BASC and detracting from the subject.
If people are not in BASC, then the scheme it is irrelevant to you, so scroll on.

 

[Tim.243]

Why would I want to find a wildfowling club, when I don't go wildfowling?

I pay an individual BASC membership, and also get membership for myself and my wife through my game shooting syndicate.

There lies where I said don't tar people with the same brush in your previous list, I never said you had to join but clearly you didn't (want to) grasp the fact that people in wildfowling clubs are tied into BASC membership as it comes with their membership.

That is a very boring list you typed.

• Most members have no experience of running a membership organisation, but feel entitled to pontificate on how they should be run
• Most members don't support their local branches or branch events
• Most members don't volunteer to stand for election
• Most members don't volunteer to help
• Most members don't bother to vote
• Most members don't really care about anything other than getting the cheapest insurance
• Most members will jump ship to another organisation at the drop of the hat, but don't hold those other organisations to anything like the same standard
• Most members expect an organisation that campaigns like the NRA in the USA, but aren't willing to put their hands in their pockets to fund it

 

[willie_gunn]

There lies where I said don't tar people with the same brush in your previous list, I never said you had to join but clearly you didn't (want to) grasp the fact that people in wildfowling clubs are tied into BASC membership as it comes with their membership.

That is a very boring list you typed.

• Most members have no experience of running a membership organisation, but feel entitled to pontificate on how they should be run
• Most members don't support their local branches or branch events
• Most members don't volunteer to stand for election
• Most members don't volunteer to help
• Most members don't bother to vote
• Most members don't really care about anything other than getting the cheapest insurance
• Most members will jump ship to another organisation at the drop of the hat, but don't hold those other organisations to anything like the same standard
• Most members expect an organisation that campaigns like the NRA in the USA, but aren't willing to put their hands in their pockets to fund it

It's not lies Tim, it's an opinion.

In my case it's the result of personal experience, having had exposure to plenty of organisations and committees over the years, whether sporting or social. I'm pleased for you if you've found things to be different.

Also I've said that I get membership of BASC through the sporting syndicate I belong to, as well as paying for individual membership. So no different than being a member through a wildfowling club.

 

[Happy stalker]

earlier in this thread I asked a gentleman why he stayed with basc and what he liked about them , couldn’t answer , I think that says a lot

It says a lot? Yes if you are that narrow minded to not understand that not everyone feels that they have to justify there existence to anyone, anyone’s long term membership to any organisation tells you that they are happy and they don’t need to justify it !! and if they where not then they would vote with there wallet, it’s really that simple my friend, if you aren’t happy give it up and move on.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Just by making a valid observation of your post #42, which I stand by whether it irritates you or not!

Really? Post #42 was me asking another member a question (yet to be answered) about where they got the idea that government schemes were involved, ie. in stating "Billed as a possible opportunity to provide more access to deer management through government schemes but used by BASC to enhance mentoring opportunities for members"

So, let's try again. I am not aware of any, as you assert, "extravagant 'voice of shooting' type claims", much less in this thread so perhaps you could explain what motivated you to start BASC bashing in this thread?

 

[Tim.243]

It's not lies Tim, it's an opinion.

In my case it's the result of personal experience, having had exposure to plenty of organisations and committees over the years, whether sporting or social. I'm pleased for you if you've found things to be different.

Also I've said that I get membership of BASC through the sporting syndicate I belong to, as well as paying for individual membership. So no different than being a member through a wildfowling club.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

BASC is our first line of defence for shooting and deer stalking

If that's the case then we are all f*****

That is not the case. That is just your opinion. And many would disagree, not least the following legal judgement.

Judge rules that BASC is essential to shooting

Without the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC), sporting shooting in Britain would be very much worse off and some forms "might no

www.farminguk.com

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

BASC staff or mates getting hold of cheap or free stalking land ?

No, that is not the case and it's dissapointing that you would suggest such unethical behaviour by BASC staff. I thought better of you.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

That was always going to be the allegation whatever the organisation be it BASC, NGO or even when the Deer Initiative was operating. I heard reports from good trusted friends of such things going on in the past with the D.I.

Therefore it should be essential that such a system should be operated honestly, fairly, and be open to scrutiny.

If you or they heard of such unethical behaviour I hope it was acted on. The BASC register is doing no such thing and if anyone knows any different feel free to PM me in confidence and I will act on that.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

I'm afraid so, one rotten apple ruins the barrel.
They are still around just under a different guise.

If you know of such rotten apples please PM me in confidence and I will act on it.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Can I ask Connor what part don't you get back in the day BASC was very good now BASC is crap that's why we are no longer members.
Back in the day BASC defended lead now they want to get rid of lead NO AXE TO GRIND just very disappointed in the way BASC has turned out Basc is not the voice of shooting if anything they are killing shooting off.

If you left BASC because of the voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting that is your choice and I appreciate you are dissapointed with the change in policy but I would disagree with your opinion that BASC is 'killing shooting off'. BASC is protecting and promoting shooting.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

When I was a member of BASC for many years Conor was always there so I stayed for a few more years.
Why because he cared he is only one person in any chain.

If we had more like him shooting would have a chance to survive we all need orgs to voice our thoughts.

That is kind of you to say so and yes I am just one COG in the wheel and BASC has passionate and hard working staff across the board (I am not just saying that, I am seeing it daily) and maybe sign up for our weekly newsletter to see for yourself at Latest news