24 hours in police custody

[gixer1]

Just watched this as it’s on channel 4 this week - a documentary on Nicholas Prosper, the guy that forged a SGC cert, bought a shotgun illegally and then killed his mother. Sister and brother with the intent to carry out a mass shooting.

A complete weirdo of a guy but what stuck out is at the end of the program the focus on a need for “further restrictions on firearms holders” and the comment that “there should be a database of holders” - is that not already the case??

Seems like as usual the outcome of a tragedy is lumped into legal gun owners and didn’t focus on the out of date systems, forms and issues within the licencing system.

I would strongly suspect that this will bring public outcry and calls for the usual bans.

Regards,
Gixer

 

[royalewithcheese]

Bedfordshire's PCC keeps banging the drum for a national firearms database and private sales of firearms to be authorised and controlled by the police.

Nevermind that NFLMS already exists and that he's the PCC for the worst force in the country for firearms licensing performance. They aren't able to turn around a grant application in 2 years, I'm not sure how they'd find the time for additional administrative work.

Also perhaps he forgets that Nicholas Prosper went armed with a knife to buy the shotgun. If the transaction didnt go smoothly, he was prepared to kill the seller and take the shotgun anyway. If the PCC's desires were in place, the likely outcome is that it would have been 4 people murdered rather than 3.

 

[f17ant]

Bedfordshire's PCC keeps banging the drum for a national firearms database and private sales of firearms to be authorised and controlled by the police.

Nevermind that NFLMS already exists and that he's the PCC for the worst force in the country for firearms licensing performance. They aren't able to turn around a grant application in 2 years, I'm not sure how they'd find the time for additional administrative work.

Also perhaps he forgets that Nicholas Prosper went armed with a knife to buy the shotgun. If the transaction didnt go smoothly, he was prepared to kill the seller and take the shotgun anyway. If the PCC's desires were in place, the likely outcome is that it would have been 4 people murdered rather than 3.

Never thought of it like that

But surely they can have a simple database where all we would need to do is type in their certificate number and it will tell us their name and if it’s valid or not or even in date. Then you can use their certificate name and address to cross reference it with their driving licence or passport (just incase they copied a certificate and didn’t change the name on it)

 

[Morkai]

A simple check systen like the one above would solve it. But that's not news.

I don't think the is a conspiracy to remove firearms from public ownership. I think governments prefer the headline grabbers showing 'they're doing something', anything, even if it's boll*cks.

They dont really care about ownership, they just want to be perceived as doing something, whether it's regarding firearms or anything else that arises, vapes, knives etc.

It's all a game of thrones to most of them, they're career politicans in it for self reward and networking for business and deals.

Any that are truly good with good intentions rerely last.

(Edit: all the points above, plus governmental incompetence)

 

[gixer1]

I don't think the is a conspiracy to remove firearms from public ownership. I think governments prefer the headline grabbers showing 'they're doing something', anything, even if it's boll*cks.

I fear you maybe mistaken there - there are definitely those in government and ignorant members of the public who would like to see firearms gone completely.

 

[Morkai]

I fear you maybe mistaken there - there are definitely those in government and ignorant members of the public who would like to see firearms gone completely.

There may be, but I suspect many politicians would simply piggyback on those views of the public purely for gain whether they believe it or not.

 

[bottletopbill]

Just look how many gun shops we have lost plus the amount who have given there tickets up.
Do you not think that the time it takes to get a ticket now puts many folks off.
Could this be another way of lowering our numbers.

 

[Dickie]

As with all the recent incidents with shootings the bulk of the blame goes on gun ownership not the failings of the system and whatever the outcome of any post incident report it's always the tightening of gun ownership is the headlines from politicians or the authorities.

The above mentioned PCC seems to need lessons on the workings of the system, perhaps one for the voice of shooting.
He won't have forgotten about the carried knife but that won't grab him headlines or political support.

 

[gixer1]

Just look how many gun shops we have lost plus the amount who have given there tickets up.
Do you not think that the time it takes to get a ticket now puts many folks off.
Could this be another way of lowering our numbers.

I think it absolutely is a way of putting people off - make the system so slow and I’ll thought out that it’s not worth the effort for some - and I understand why they would think that.

We really must try and educate people and get them into shooting sports if we want it to survive.

 

[bottletopbill]

I think it absolutely is a way of putting people off - make the system so slow and I’ll thought out that it’s not worth the effort for some - and I understand why they would think that.

We really must try and educate people and get them into shooting sports if we want it to survive.

We all need to bring younger folks to shooting as kids we had air rifles and no one took any notice.
Why are we allowing shooting in all forms to be a negative lets hold more welcoming day's for other's to see. and taste some food if possible

 

[gixer1]

We all need to bring younger folks to shooting as kids we had air rifles and no one took any notice.
Why are we allowing shooting in all forms to be a negative lets hold more welcoming day's for other's to see. and taste some food if possible

Yup, although letting juniors use and have air rifles is now a major chore! They have made it very difficult to get into the sport.

 

[User00056]

Watching the program now. Utterly horrific

 

[Bo Diddley]

Channel 4 is totally left-wing biased. So it's about all you can expect.
Beth Rigby is bosom buddies with Angela Raynor, aka "The Ginger Growler"

 

[Klenchblaize]

Thought this was another "Migrant On The Loose" thread!

K

 

[Greenmist]

We all need to bring younger folks to shooting as kids we had air rifles and no one took any notice.
Why are we allowing shooting in all forms to be a negative lets hold more welcoming day's for other's to see. and taste some food if possible

Bring any folk into it, I'm taking four to guest day at my club (something we need more of) this weekend, earlier this month I stood with a gun on a peg and watched him shoot his first partridge and pheasant after teaching him to shoot on clays. Opportunities exist to introduce people, we just need to take advantage of them

 

[Bowland blades]

Just watched this as it’s on channel 4 this week - a documentary on Nicholas Prosper, the guy that forged a SGC cert, bought a shotgun illegally and then killed his mother. Sister and brother with the intent to carry out a mass shooting.

A complete weirdo of a guy but what stuck out is at the end of the program the focus on a need for “further restrictions on firearms holders” and the comment that “there should be a database of holders” - is that not already the case??

Seems like as usual the outcome of a tragedy is lumped into legal gun owners and didn’t focus on the out of date systems, forms and issues within the licencing system.

I would strongly suspect that this will bring public outcry and calls for the usual bans.

Regards,
Gixer

Good grief , There must be thousands of stolen and unlicenced Shotguns all over the UK . Indeed i believe Lugers and other ww2 guns even grenades are out there . and what about all these folks comming into the UK in small boats ?

 

[Rafter]

Good grief , There must be thousands of stolen and unlicenced Shotguns all over the UK . Indeed i believe Lugers and other ww2 guns even grenades are out there . and what about all these folks comming into the UK in small boats ?

I'm sure that nobody entering the country illegally would compound the offending by smuggling anything.

How racist/misogynistic/climate denier/hateful of you.

 

[bluesako]

just read the other day about the two men killed a by the terrorist in manchester the other week at the synagogue, but hang on it didnt mention that one of the dead was killed by armed police officers .

 

[Greenmist]

Good grief , There must be thousands of stolen and unlicenced Shotguns all over the UK . Indeed i believe Lugers and other ww2 guns even grenades are out there . and what about all these folks comming into the UK in small boats ?

I think any guns brought in on boats will only improve the diversity and overall enrich the gun culture we have, having only English guns will have other countries frown upon us , what we need are calibres both metric and imperial, otherwise our shooting experience as whole will be poorer, we must embrace this wave of foreign guns which will only strengthen our sport

 

[Rutland lad]

Two things from me.

If ALL firearms transactions were completed in an RFD’s premises, with video and full documentation check and entered in a ledger with the RFD being responsible for notifying the Police of any transaction (for a nominal fee of course) then this tragedy would’ve been averted.
It’s beyond the average FAC holder to determine if a certificate if real or forged (as in Proper’s case) but an RFD who sees hundreds of certs could probably recognise it as a forgery, or could call up the local FEO office and have it checked. These simple steps could eradicate some of the allegations levelled.
And this is ‘light touch’ - if this was agreed it could avert much more draconian legislation none of us would like.

I was beating yesterday on a local shoot with a guy from Beds, and this very case came up in conversation. Sadly, he told me the guy that sold Prosper the shotgun killer himself shortly afterwards as he couldn’t cope with what had transpired.

That alone is perhaps a reason why my thoughts above would work.