Alba Crown Halal Scottish Venison

[DeerHunterUK]

I know some Muslim stalkers who will immediately slit the throat of the deer to allow it to bleed out once they approach the shot deer although I do agree that with a chest / neck shot the deer will bleed out (quickly) anyway.
As for saying a prayer before shooting, this isn’t always possible when hunting. For example when shooting birds, they’re shot within milliseconds, no time to blink nevermind pray so that’s not practically possible . I’ve been told this is acceptable given its part and parcel of hunting.

As for praying, they set the intention before the stalk. They prey in their minds and hearts that they have a safe and ethical hunt, and that they abide by ethical and welfare standards and best practices and do their best to do a good clean ethical job.

I think there’s a lot of misconception around halal and the animal facing east etc. @VSS provided a good explanation above.

The aim of halal is to ensure the food is killed as humanely and as quickly possible (sharp knife to the throat and allow it to bleed out).

I know a few Muslims that hunt and aside from saying a prayer, some don’t do anything differently to DSC standards and are content that it’s halal.

On a side note, someone said to me the reason why some game meat doesn’t taste gamey is because it’s been bled out, not sure how true that is. Happy to hear since thoughts on this.Ties into what @Heym SR20 mentioned above.

Anyway live and let live whether it be halal, kosher, blessed or not, lol. Everyone should be able to enjoy the best cleanest wild meat in the country which I believe venison being one of them as well as other game meat.

 

[VSS]

So basically religious freedom allows unnecessary suffering of domestic animals in the 21st century. Quite shocking really

That is the popular misconception.

 

[VSS]

I have a link to an interesting 10 minute video about halal slaughter. I have met the abattoir owner (and farmer) who is featured, and have heard him speak at a couple of conferences. He really knows his stuff.
Unfortunately, I only have it on Instagram, so don’t think I can post the link to it directly here, but if anyone would like to watch it please send me your Instagram details and I'll share it with you.

 

[jimmer.13]

I know some Muslim stalkers who will immediately slit the throat of the deer to allow it to bleed out once they approach the shot deer although I do agree that with a chest / neck shot the deer will bleed out (quickly) anyway.
As for saying a prayer before shooting, this isn’t always possible when hunting. For example when shooting birds, they’re shot within milliseconds, no time to blink nevermind pray so that’s not practically possible . I’ve been told this is acceptable given its part and parcel of hunting.

As for praying, they set the intention before the stalk. They prey in their minds and hearts that they have a safe and ethical hunt, and that they abide by ethical and welfare standards and best practices and do their best to do a good clean ethical job.

I think there’s a lot of misconception around halal and the animal facing east etc. @VSS provided a good explanation above.

The aim of halal is to ensure the food is killed as humanely and as quickly possible (sharp knife to the throat and allow it to bleed out).

I know a few Muslims that hunt and aside from saying a prayer, some don’t do anything differently to DSC standards and are content that it’s halal.

On a side note, someone said to me the reason why some game meat doesn’t taste gamey is because it’s been bled out, not sure how true that is. Happy to hear since thoughts on this.Ties into what @Heym SR20 mentioned above.

Anyway live and let live whether it be halal, kosher, blessed or not, lol. Everyone should be able to enjoy the best cleanest wild meat in the country which I believe venison being one of them as well as other game meat.

Totally agree.
I’ve hunted, stalked and shot with a few Muslims. One of them told me he had a taken a part time job in a Halal slaughter house leading up to Eid. He packed it in after a day as it was barbaric and inhumane, his words.
Not saying all slaughterhouses are the same but to allow any sort of cruelty to go unchecked due to the risk of offending religious practices should be stamped on.
Non stun commercial slaughter of domestic animals should be outlawed in my opinion.

 

[TringSaint]

Well as far as my Muslim neighbours were concerned , yes

They were sensible folk that would hate wasted food mind

I think it depends on their pov.
I have a neighbour whose son has a Muslim partner. They have venison off me and offered some to her.
She was fine with it being shot but it failed the other tests for being truly halal, so wasn’t totally keen to eat it.
She did out of politeness but said that she really shouldn’t as it hadn’t been blessed at the time of despatch.

As will all religious followers, there are moderates and there are hard liners and I guess for a hardliner simply offering stalked deer will not enable it to qualify as halal.

 

[BenBhoy]

Non stun commercial slaughter of domestic animals should be outlawed in my opinion.

One of those rare moments again... totally agree.

As someone who's livelihood is from rearing animals to be slaughtered, someone who spends every day trying to do right by them animals so that their day to day lives are as good as possible, it therefore wouldn't sit right knowing that their final moments are traumatic, painful & the worst of their lives just to appease a make believe story book.

I'm very lucky that all our lambs & cattle are killed locally/small and all go to local farm Shop or restaurants. Very occasionally (once a year) we sell cull ewes live at market so it'salways an unknown where they can go but options for aged ewes is limited & without Muslim buyer's that already weak market would be absolutely on its knees.

 

[tackb]

i'm gonna chuck my tuppence worth in here , wanted or not!

i firmly believe that religion has no place in animal husbandry/slaughter , and thats all religions.

 

[Malxwal]

Well, I'd say I was now satisfied that the tag line in the OP is justified, if the definition of halal isn't rigidly tied to a misconception that it must be a knife to the throat, and that if those deer are truly wild, not farmed. The concept of an animal living stress free, then a swift death by a fairly professional application of a knife to the throat is only really feasible on a very small scale, imagining domesticated animal living alongside a family group etc. That simply can't be replicated with the huge demand in modern society. Therein the definition of halal is open to misinterpretation, resulting in the concept we have of halal, which is that's it's a horrific practice.
We'd all still argue the ideal stalk ends with a deer dying a very quick death without ever knowing we were present.

 

[jimmer.13]

One of those rare moments again... totally agree.

As someone who's livelihood is from rearing animals to be slaughtered, someone who spends every day trying to do right by them animals so that their day to day lives are as good as possible, it therefore wouldn't sit right knowing that their final moments are traumatic, painful & the worst of their lives just to appease a make believe story book.

I'm very lucky that all our lambs & cattle are killed locally/small and all go to local farm Shop or restaurants. Very occasionally (once a year) we sell cull ewes live at market so it'salways an unknown where they can go but options for aged ewes is limited & without Muslim buyer's that already weak market would be absolutely on its knees.

Political polar opposites mate,
But you and I ain’t that different

 

[Demetrius]

As an aside, my local Halal butcher sells beef and lamb at considerably lower prices than standard butchers and supermarkets.
The "cuts" are different, usually including bone, and proper mutton is normally available.

D.

 

[TringSaint]

As an aside, my local Halal butcher sells beef and lamb at considerably lower prices than standard butchers and supermarkets.
The "cuts" are different, usually including bone, and proper mutton is normally available.

D.

Yup - halal (in fact most non UK butchers) do more cuts with the bone in, largely because it reduces their waste and adds flavour to any dish.
We (as in the cosseted UK public) don’t want to have to deal with icky things like bones and cartilage, so it’s all removed so that we can enjoy our prime cuts without any of the fuss or hassle!

 

[Heym SR20]

Yup - halal (in fact most non UK butchers) do more cuts with the bone in, largely because it reduces their waste and adds flavour to any dish.
We (as in the cosseted UK public) don’t want to have to deal with icky things like bones and cartilage, so it’s all removed so that we can enjoy our prime cuts without any of the fuss or hassle!

The icky bits are where the flavour is. Indeed when cooking they give up a jelly (liquid at cooked temperature) and this captures all the flavours which then makes the base for wonderful unctuous sauce or gravy and / or jelly once cold.

Get rid of those bits and no flavour or no depth to flavour.

 

[VSS]

One of those rare moments again... totally agree.

As someone who's livelihood is from rearing animals to be slaughtered, someone who spends every day trying to do right by them animals so that their day to day lives are as good as possible, it therefore wouldn't sit right knowing that their final moments are traumatic, painful & the worst of their lives just to appease a make believe story book.

I'm very lucky that all our lambs & cattle are killed locally/small and all go to local farm Shop or restaurants. Very occasionally (once a year) we sell cull ewes live at market so it'salways an unknown where they can go but options for aged ewes is limited & without Muslim buyer's that already weak market would be absolutely on its knees.

I always felt the same, Ben. Absolutely dead against all forms of religious "non-stun" slaughter.
However, being well aware that our sheep industry in the UK is massively dependent on the halal/Muslim trade, I thought I'd better look into it a bit.
Having spoken to some of the people involved at the top of the industry, been to conferences etc, and learned about the halal requirements, I have changed my opinion completely. If anything, I would say that their livestock health and welfare requirements are higher than the minimum standards required for conventional slaughter, particularly in the lairage and in the period leading up to slaughter.
Yes, it's true, there will always be some dodgy premises where things aren't done by the book, but exactly the same applies to conventional abattoirs. You can find rotten apples in any industry.

It's just worth bearing in mind that the kind of "click bait" headlines that you're reading - and believing - about halal slaughter are very similar to the kind of sensational headlines put out by activsts against conventional slaughter or against shooting live quarry. Do you believe those too?

It's also worth bearing in mind that we, hunters, are a minority group trying to protect what we see as our cultural heritage, despite opposition from those within the community who believe that what we do is cruel, barbaric, and has no place in 21st century society. There are certain parallels.

 

[TringSaint]

The icky bits are where the flavour is. Indeed when cooking they give up a jelly (liquid at cooked temperature) and this captures all the flavours which then makes the base for wonderful unctuous sauce or gravy and / or jelly once cold.

Get rid of those bits and no flavour or no depth to flavour.

Absolutely - but too many can’t be bothered to put in the effort to cook meat on the bone (or with connective tissue)
My fave is featherblade steak - cook it quickly and you could use it in brake pads, but low and slow for 6 hours and it becomes sumptuous and that big wedge of tissue melts away into a band of pure flavour!!

Simple cooking using time to create the flavour from what’s in the pot

 

[Heym SR20]

Absolutely - but too many can’t be bothered to put in the effort to cook meat on the bone (or with connective tissue)
My fave is featherblade steak - cook it quickly and you could use it in brake pads, but low and slow for 6 hours and it becomes sumptuous and that big wedge of tissue melts away into a band of pure flavour!!

Simple cooking using time to create the flavour from what’s in the pot

But FFS don’t tell the masses. These cheaper cuts of meat are the ones that are not wanted. Skills required to cook properly are not high.

But do require applying the brain and do a litte more than using some app on your phone.

Personally I don’t like slow cookers - they never seem to get the caramilisation / browning etc that really gives the flavour, nor do glass or ceramics. I tend to stick a pot roast, stew or curry in the oven in cast iron pot with tight fitting cook it at 180°c for a couple of hours. Scrape all the goods bit back down. After a couple of hours just turn the oven off leaving the pot in there. And it will continue to slow cookers for the next few hours. I will often do this whilst backing bread or cooking something else one evening with a view to eating the yumminess in the pot the following evening.

Following day the meat will be falling off the bone. Take the meat, break into chunks and warm it back up or stick a pastry, mashef potatoe or rice on top and bake for another 30 to 40 minutes.

The overnight rest does wonders for the flavours. This is how I venison shoulders. Leave on bone. Chop away any blood shot meat before freezing, or if you have, do so before cooking. Meat just falls off.

I have zero issues with people of faith going about their business and following their beliefs. Vast majority of different faiths all have peace and goodwill to fellow creatures at their core.

What I cannot stand are radicals of any faith, creed or colour who now with the power of the internet have a massive voice and use very extreme interpretations of the law of the land or the good book for their own greedy ends.

Within my own family there is one such individual who 250,000 odd subscribers. He pours out utter filth. When I challenged him on this - his response is that its clickbait and the worse he produces the more followers he gets and thus the more he earns. A very sad state of affairs.

 

[doric_prince]

inshallah

If god wills it, it is meant to be. Simples.

E.g. the train will arrive at Cairo central 14:10, inshallah. Which means if the train is late; god wanted it to be so. A great t&c the Egyptian rail tannoy would announce/ I experienced when traveling in Egypt a couple of decades ago.

One Could apply this philosophy to many aspects of stalking, I suppose.

 

[BenBhoy]

being well aware that our sheep industry in the UK is massively dependent on the halal/Muslim trade,

Oh absolutely mate, like I said about the culls. I'll have to accept that you've, admirably, exposed yourself to it more than I have. I'd still feel happier if I knew every single one was stunned.

 

[JockStalk]

I often say a prayer before shooting.

And that’s just target practice.

 

[Sol]

If the cut is 200* degrees I cant see how the animals suffer anymore than stunned animals, I watched a video and refreshed my mind on how there done In my opinion the cut wasn't enough but the animal still was rendered unconscious within about 1.5 seconds.

I believe a larger cut that actually properly severs both jugular veins would be nearly instantaneous, I know most home butchery styles of Kosher and Halal meat do it that way and the cut Is usually pretty much down too the neck bone (instantly) I dont think the warehouses do It well, but our own factories arent even that consistent

I dont think we have much room to complain at other religions when our farming practises are easily as cruel.

Again most of the worlds population considers hunting more as cruel than factory farming.

 

[Karhumies]

I have been around halal stuff in the netherlands and having worked as a butcher at one point with many halal butchers in the same town i think i have a decent understanding of how it is.

First of all like with anything religious there are various interpretations to how strict something has to be. One abbatoir i once knew some employees at was extremely strict (i think laws may have tightened a little in the years since)

an imam would say bishmilla while the unstunned conscious animal was pointed to mecca and had its throat sliced. Then great care was taken that nobody and nothing unclean was in the room or handled the meat at any point. This abbatoir was small and catered to a few local shops for the more "extreme" muslims

The essence at bare minimum as far as i understand is that the animal does need to face mecca, the animal needs to die from bleeding out and there can be no question about cause of death (for instance by damaging the brain)

Halal venison seems odd to me but iam no muslim. In the end they make the guidelines on this.

For me on my rabbits a 22 to the head and a quick slice of the knive with a period of hanging by the legs does the job just fine. But as was explained before there is definitely some sciense to the benefit of halal historically. Without all of our modern antibiotics and walk in fridges it really is the safest cleanest way to do it and without guns or other more modern tools its also the most humane.

and yea someone must say that chant

this means smaller animals like chickens and even sheep and goats can be done relatively humanely because they either bleed out very quickly or can be stunned with electricity to the nervous system.

However cows are a whole different matter, cows have an extra bloodvessel protected by the vertebrae so rather than loosing consciousness from the brain not getting oxygen they have to actually bleed out or suffocate wich takes a while.