I don't for a monent suggest that older people aren't working and paying tax, bit the fact is that younger people working in the private sector have these differences: they don't have anything like the same pension provision, the tax burden is higher in their prime working years than it was for people who are now e.g. 70, they are more highly regulated, their housing is disproportionately more expensive because of taxes, and they have rafts of indirect taxes and red tape which weren't anythong like that heavy 30yrs ago.
An American perspective.
- Thread starter Dunwaters
- Start date
Martiniblack577
Well-Known Member
Would it be fair to say the minority dissenters - by default - become protected and hard to challenge?
I’m not sure I understand the question - can you clarify please?
The point is within you post,
And yet those who have leases this side of the water with (paper work) are not restricted as yourselves in Eire.
My overseas guest carry their own (mine) rifles.
Britain is slightly outside the curve.
You live on a very crowded island, access to hunting opportunities have always been restricted. That serves to insulate you from what’s happening in the rest of the world. The fact that shooting is regarded as expensive and exclusive insulates you further. There are always people on the waiting list.
The problem is easy to see, the younger cohort still dependant on their parents and whose parents are themselves involved are well represented, we lose them when they leave home and become independent because they just dont have spare time or cash or access to to a dog or a car.
In short, they’re economically worse off than their parents, less spare time, less disposable income and dependant on public transport.
We get some of them back in their mid thirties - forties when they’ve made a few bob and are secure, but only if their wife and kids let them.
We need to widen the pool beyond our current white male dominated participation.
Forget the lead restrictions, this issue is what will dramatically reduce participation in all shooting sports over the next 20 years.
This single issue is where BASC and your other organisations need to concentrate.
The Visitor's Permit scheme in Ireland works fine as long as you plan for it, an overseas visitor applies for a Visitor's Permit for the rifle or shotgun allowing you to hold, store and use the weapon, and buy ammunition, then you apply for a National Parks and Wildlife Service deer permit (which requires DSC1 equivalent or above), and having a host with permissions to use the weapons or your own permissions, you crack on. Needs a month or 6 weeks planning but lasts up to a year so fine for repeat visits. Customs both ways can be a bit of a bore as despite the fact that you have declared the firearms they then can sometimes go to town on you....I had to value the ammo I was carrying, a couple of bottles of wine and a box of pork from a friend in Wales to justify that I was under the customs limit one time....but just allow an extra 45 minutes. I did this for a year before getting my Irish Certificates.Who is this "We" in Eire the guide has to carry the rifle for an overseas guest...
"people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"
In Ireland, a guest or any other individual cannot carry a rifle without a valid Irish firearms certificate for that specific weapon. It is a criminal offence to possess or use a firearm without this documentation, even on private property.
"Pat there is a Stag pass me the rifle" "too late it has gone"
Here my overseas guest pay the temp cost and use the rifles to my conditions for the length of the trip
Yes but can the Guest carry the/their rifle on the stalk (yes to take the shot) but in the going along the track and back is that a yes or no?
Yes, as if they have a full licence. Carry, shoot, drive around with and store. There just isn’t an Estate Rifle rule. Once I was familiar with the ground my “host” gave me a letter of permission over a 1500 acre patch and I was able to stalk solo.
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
I see what happened
Virtually no one is interested in eating game and very few are arsed walking the fields for a couple of hours, getting wet and uncomfortable.
I’ll be out myself, chasing dogs and missing birds, but I’ll see very few others and the ones I do see will be well North of 50.
Thats the problem, and its happening almost everywhere.
Whenever I visit the UK for shooting and bring a firearm, I get a visitor cert and carry the gun myself. Our situation is the same, get a visitor permit. We have no estate rifle exemption. Whenever I have guests, I organise the permits. It takes about 6 weeks.The point is within you post,
And yet those who have leases this side of the water with (paper work) are not restricted as yourselves in Eire.
My overseas guest carry their own (mine) rifles.
This is not a comment on your access to firearms, you are outside the curve because virtually all your shooting takes place on private property and traditionally there have been more people seeking to access shooting than places available. With the drop in active participants, that may change.
The word “we” refers to the shooting community in general, not specifically the UK. In the UK your large population pretty much guarantees that you can fill a vacant slot, so far anyway.
Over the last 30 years things here have changed drastically. My local club used to have 22 members and a waiting list. Today we have 13 members and no applicants. Tomorrow, 1nov, is the opening day of our pheasant season, it used to be an undeclared national holiday, everyone was out and local pubs held competitions for the biggest or heaviest bird, all that is gone.
Virtually no one is interested in eating game and very few are arsed walking the fields for a couple of hours, getting wet and uncomfortable.
I’ll be out myself, chasing dogs and missing birds, but I’ll see very few others and the ones I do see will be well North of 50.
Thats the problem, and its happening almost everywhere.
I am lucky enough to have met a few local, young stalkers (20’s and 30’s) who really put the hours in…however one gives up the stalking shortly as he is mad keen on getting after woodcock….
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
Interesting article I had not seen before and echoes with the BASC article below from a more recent study, and that encouragement continues to be done by some as per some of the comments in this thread.
Science matters: How mentors can shape the shooting community
Mentors have a vital role to play in ensuring that the shooting sector continues to grow and flourish, says BASC's Heather Warrender.
basc.org.uk
BASC has an ongoing campaign encouraging more women into shooting.
Women in Shooting
Women in Shooting aims to promote the inclusivity of shooting sports and celebrate the diversity of women involved.
basc.org.uk
It's not entirely hopeless
In the last couple of years I've managed to guide/mentor four young shooters in their early days and all of them are now FAC holders and working towards either DSC1 or PDS1
However, all four were young fellas
I've tried, and so far failed to persuade my own daughters to keep at it
Both were keen as mustard when younger but have since lost interest
In fact I don't see many young women getting involved, which is a pity in many ways, especially as some of the best stalkers I've had the good fortune to meet have been women
I've heard about the vociferous woke nuts in secondary school/college/university but a good sign is that it seems that many youngsters despise them as "losers" "weirdos" "bullies" etc
Like those of us who learned to keep our mouths shut in the corporate world, the kids adapt to their environment too
Hope isn't completely lost - yet
In the last couple of years I've managed to guide/mentor four young shooters in their early days and all of them are now FAC holders and working towards either DSC1 or PDS1
However, all four were young fellas
I've tried, and so far failed to persuade my own daughters to keep at it
Both were keen as mustard when younger but have since lost interest
In fact I don't see many young women getting involved, which is a pity in many ways, especially as some of the best stalkers I've had the good fortune to meet have been women
I've heard about the vociferous woke nuts in secondary school/college/university but a good sign is that it seems that many youngsters despise them as "losers" "weirdos" "bullies" etc
Like those of us who learned to keep our mouths shut in the corporate world, the kids adapt to their environment too
Hope isn't completely lost - yet
Reloader708
Well-Known Member
Whist its true, lots of kids now just aren't that interested in what we hold dear; you must also remember its not just hunting thats struggling to recruit.
Lots of hobbies and institutions are slowly aging into oblivion.
I think the idea of being involved in some pass time that requires leaving the safety of the house is becoming less attractive, i know its a struggle with my teen and lord knows ive tried.
Times are changing.
Lots of hobbies and institutions are slowly aging into oblivion.
I think the idea of being involved in some pass time that requires leaving the safety of the house is becoming less attractive, i know its a struggle with my teen and lord knows ive tried.
Times are changing.
I have said to a few lads on the farms about repairs (mainly about welding) the younger ones just look at me and only one
"H" has pitched up and said show me after a I said "you need to learn this as Tim won't be around for ever"
Yup - that isn’t the law…strange interpretation.
Are you in the same Eire as Dunwater ?
True, in Eire you...Who is this "We" in Eire the guide has to carry the rifle for an overseas guest...
"people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"
In Ireland, a guest or any other individual cannot carry a rifle without a valid Irish firearms certificate for that specific weapon. It is a criminal offence to possess or use a firearm without this documentation, even on private property.
"Pat there is a Stag pass me the rifle" "too late it has gone"
Here my overseas guest pay the temp cost and use the rifles to my conditions for the length of the trip
Tim - not sure what you are getting at and what you want to get out of this. If you have an Irish visitor permit you can do everything a local licence holder can do, as Dunwater and I say, there isn’t an Estate Rifle rule so without a permit you can’t pull the trigger or carry the rifle. No rubbish about the guide carrying the rifle. It’s not complicated…sorry if I have the wrong end of the stick.Are you in the same Eire as Dunwater ?
True, in Eire you...Who is this "We" in Eire the guide has to carry the rifle for an overseas guest...
"people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"
In Ireland, a guest or any other individual cannot carry a rifle without a valid Irish firearms certificate for that specific weapon. It is a criminal offence to possess or use a firearm without this documentation, even on private property.
"Pat there is a Stag pass me the rifle" "too late it has gone"
Here my overseas guest pay the temp cost and use the rifles to my conditions for the length of the trip
I don't want to get anything out of it just confused as to why DW and field sports posted the same thing, I get you can shoot which is in B&W but the conflicting part is x2 people and the net said the guide has to carry the rifle, where in England the people with VP's carry their own.
There are lots of myth's, folk law around peoples interpretation of the Fire Arms Laws and it is often hard to define!
No wrong end of the stick with it being sparked of about what is wrong with the FAC system in England&Wales which I posted on.
No worries, this is the AI summary: "As a visitor, you must obtain a valid firearms certificate and a separate deer hunting licence before you can shoot deer in Ireland. The process includes applying for a non-resident firearms certificate through An Garda Síochána at least six weeks before arrival and applying for the deer hunting licence from the National Parks & Wildlife Service (NPWS), which may require proof of training. You also need landowner permission for the area you plan to hunt." Once you have the Visitors's Permit there are no constraints on carry or use outside the firearms law. Without the Permit you can't carry or pull the trigger. Otherwise the laws on security, use, etc, are similar to UK but with a slightly more rigidly laid out home security requirement vs. number of weapons held, and slightly tighter advice on transportation. Maximum rifle calibre is .308/7.62mm, .22lr pistols and revolvers are allowed if you belong to a target club (larger calibres to "legacy" owners only). No Bullpup Rifles or Assault Rifles, oh and airguns need a licence.
With the recent large shift in young people to the conservative side, I think we're seeing the trough in hunting numbers, and they will begin to increase soon. I see more and more younger folks at the range, and hunting these days, than I have in the last 20 years.
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