Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
This might interest some members who perhaps like me consider that a solely paperless IT-based process for all aspects of firearms licensing disadvantages those with no IT skills or access to a computer - in this particular case those over 60. This should be seen against a recent survey which showed that one third of said GB 60-plus people fall into this category - a figure which is highly likely to be exceeded in Northern Ireland.
The following is PSNI’s response to my FoI request which I attach without comment - other than it seems to me that PSNI is hiding behind Legal Professional “Privilige (LPP)….
Subject:
FOI/15887
Firearms and Explosives
PSNI Firearms Licencing
Firearms Applications and Certificates
Request and Answer:
Your request for information has now been considered. In respect of Section 1(1)(a) of the Act we
can confirm that the Police Service of Northern Ireland does hold information to which your request
relates and some of this is being provided to you.
We further consider that some of the information you seek is exempt by virtue of Section 42(1) of
FOIA and have detailed our rationale as to why this exemption applies.
We have also provided you with links to guidance issued by the Information Commissioner's Office
which we have followed in responding to your request.
Q u e s t i o n 1
In the initial Investment Appraisal for the move to the online system what steps did PSNI take to
identify the number of existing (or likely future - say 5 year period) certificate holders who would fall
into this IT illiterate/inaccessible category;
A n s w e r 1
To deal with the transition to move from a paper-based process the following steps were taken:
• Education was provided to key stakeholders within the shooting community by way of regular
updates of the forthcoming changes;
• Roadshows were held in venues throughout Northern Ireland, in advance of go live, which members
of the public could attend
to see a demonstration of the new online application system;
• Laptops were provided by PSNI to Firearms Dealers in NI so they could assist members of the
public to submit their applications;
• Local Firearms Enquiry officers, based throughout NI, were trained in the system so they could also
assist applicants;
• A dual system (paper-based or online) was offered for the first 18 months after the initial transition.
Q u e s t i o n 2
What was the total number of 65 years old and older FAC holders identified both (then) current and
anticipated (again in the 5 year future);
A n s w e r 2
Please find attached PDF in response to the above.
Question 3
In light of that information did PSNI consider at that stage whether, either intentionally or otherwise,
the move to a ”paperless“ IT System could/would create a breach or breaches of the then prevailing
(and current) Age Discrimination legislation; and
Answer 3
You have sought information which is considered to attract Legal Professional Privilege (‘LPP’). LPP
protects confidential communications between a lawyer and client. Section 42 of the FOIA provides
an exemption for information protected by LPP. The concept of LPP protects the confidentiality of
communications between a lawyer and client. This helps to ensure complete fairness in legal
proceedings.
In Bellamy v the Information Commissioner and the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry
(EA/2005/0023, 4 April 2006) the Information Tribunal described LPP as:
“a set of rules or principles which are designed to protect the confidentiality of legal or legally related
communications and exchanges between the client and his, her or its lawyers, as well as exchanges
which contain or refer to legal advice which might be imparted to the client, and even exchanges
between the clients and [third] parties if such communications or exchanges come into being for the
purposes of preparing for litigation”
In the Bellamy decision, the Tribunal acknowledged that there are two types of privilege within the
concept of LPP:
Litigation privilege; and
Advice privilege.
Litigation privilege applies to confidential communications made for the purpose of providing or
obtaining legal advice about proposed or contemplated litigation. Litigation privilege can apply to a
wide variety of information, including advice, correspondence, notes, evidence or reports. Advice
privilege applies where no litigation is in progress or contemplated. It covers confidential
communications between the client and lawyer, made for the dominant (main) purpose of seeking or
giving legal advice.
In this case PSNI considers the information you have requested is covered by both litigation and
advice privilege. As a result section 42 (1) of the FOIA is engaged. Section 42 (1) states:
(1) Information in respect of which a claim to legal professional privilege or, in Scotland, to
confidentiality of communications could be maintained in legal proceedings is exempt information.
.The full text of exemptions can be found at www.legislation.gov.uk and further guidance on how they
operate can be located on the Information Commissioners Office website www.ico.org.uk. PSNI has
also followed the Information Commissioner’s Office guidance on LPP which is available on their
website at the following link:
organisations/documents/1208/legal professional privilege exemption s42.pdf
Section 42 (1) – Legal professional privilege
Section 42 is a class based exemption which carries a public interest test. This means that
information has to fall within the class protected by the exemption for it to be engaged. In this
instance there are communications between PSNI and its legal advisors within the information you
are requesting. The public interest considerations that PSNI considered included:
Factors favouring release - Section 42
Providing information covered by legal professional privilege to the public could increase
transparency for the public on the decision making processes of PSNI.
Factors against release - Section 42
The material requested includes communications to which legal advices have been sought. The
PSNI’s ability to consider that advice and to determine its position could be compromised if this
information were to be released. There is a high public interest in the ability for PSNI to seek legal
advice freely and frankly in relation to an ongoing issue is imperative and PSNI sought that advice in
confidence with the expectation it would not be further disclosed.
Balancing Test/Decision
PSNI has considered the public interest factors above, and taking all of the circumstances of this
request into account considers that the balance of the public interest test favours withholding of the
information in this instance.
Question 4
If the then PSNI consideration determined that a breach may occur what factors influenced PSNI’s
decision to introduce the current paperless system?
Answer 4
PSNI did not consider it as a breach.”
Comments (at least printable) are welcome…..
The following is PSNI’s response to my FoI request which I attach without comment - other than it seems to me that PSNI is hiding behind Legal Professional “Privilige (LPP)….
Subject:
FOI/15887
Firearms and Explosives
PSNI Firearms Licencing
Firearms Applications and Certificates
Request and Answer:
Your request for information has now been considered. In respect of Section 1(1)(a) of the Act we
can confirm that the Police Service of Northern Ireland does hold information to which your request
relates and some of this is being provided to you.
We further consider that some of the information you seek is exempt by virtue of Section 42(1) of
FOIA and have detailed our rationale as to why this exemption applies.
We have also provided you with links to guidance issued by the Information Commissioner's Office
which we have followed in responding to your request.
Q u e s t i o n 1
In the initial Investment Appraisal for the move to the online system what steps did PSNI take to
identify the number of existing (or likely future - say 5 year period) certificate holders who would fall
into this IT illiterate/inaccessible category;
A n s w e r 1
To deal with the transition to move from a paper-based process the following steps were taken:
• Education was provided to key stakeholders within the shooting community by way of regular
updates of the forthcoming changes;
• Roadshows were held in venues throughout Northern Ireland, in advance of go live, which members
of the public could attend
to see a demonstration of the new online application system;
• Laptops were provided by PSNI to Firearms Dealers in NI so they could assist members of the
public to submit their applications;
• Local Firearms Enquiry officers, based throughout NI, were trained in the system so they could also
assist applicants;
• A dual system (paper-based or online) was offered for the first 18 months after the initial transition.
Q u e s t i o n 2
What was the total number of 65 years old and older FAC holders identified both (then) current and
anticipated (again in the 5 year future);
A n s w e r 2
Please find attached PDF in response to the above.
Question 3
In light of that information did PSNI consider at that stage whether, either intentionally or otherwise,
the move to a ”paperless“ IT System could/would create a breach or breaches of the then prevailing
(and current) Age Discrimination legislation; and
Answer 3
You have sought information which is considered to attract Legal Professional Privilege (‘LPP’). LPP
protects confidential communications between a lawyer and client. Section 42 of the FOIA provides
an exemption for information protected by LPP. The concept of LPP protects the confidentiality of
communications between a lawyer and client. This helps to ensure complete fairness in legal
proceedings.
In Bellamy v the Information Commissioner and the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry
(EA/2005/0023, 4 April 2006) the Information Tribunal described LPP as:
“a set of rules or principles which are designed to protect the confidentiality of legal or legally related
communications and exchanges between the client and his, her or its lawyers, as well as exchanges
which contain or refer to legal advice which might be imparted to the client, and even exchanges
between the clients and [third] parties if such communications or exchanges come into being for the
purposes of preparing for litigation”
In the Bellamy decision, the Tribunal acknowledged that there are two types of privilege within the
concept of LPP:
Litigation privilege; and
Advice privilege.
Litigation privilege applies to confidential communications made for the purpose of providing or
obtaining legal advice about proposed or contemplated litigation. Litigation privilege can apply to a
wide variety of information, including advice, correspondence, notes, evidence or reports. Advice
privilege applies where no litigation is in progress or contemplated. It covers confidential
communications between the client and lawyer, made for the dominant (main) purpose of seeking or
giving legal advice.
In this case PSNI considers the information you have requested is covered by both litigation and
advice privilege. As a result section 42 (1) of the FOIA is engaged. Section 42 (1) states:
(1) Information in respect of which a claim to legal professional privilege or, in Scotland, to
confidentiality of communications could be maintained in legal proceedings is exempt information.
.The full text of exemptions can be found at www.legislation.gov.uk and further guidance on how they
operate can be located on the Information Commissioners Office website www.ico.org.uk. PSNI has
also followed the Information Commissioner’s Office guidance on LPP which is available on their
website at the following link:
organisations/documents/1208/legal professional privilege exemption s42.pdf
Section 42 (1) – Legal professional privilege
Section 42 is a class based exemption which carries a public interest test. This means that
information has to fall within the class protected by the exemption for it to be engaged. In this
instance there are communications between PSNI and its legal advisors within the information you
are requesting. The public interest considerations that PSNI considered included:
Factors favouring release - Section 42
Providing information covered by legal professional privilege to the public could increase
transparency for the public on the decision making processes of PSNI.
Factors against release - Section 42
The material requested includes communications to which legal advices have been sought. The
PSNI’s ability to consider that advice and to determine its position could be compromised if this
information were to be released. There is a high public interest in the ability for PSNI to seek legal
advice freely and frankly in relation to an ongoing issue is imperative and PSNI sought that advice in
confidence with the expectation it would not be further disclosed.
Balancing Test/Decision
PSNI has considered the public interest factors above, and taking all of the circumstances of this
request into account considers that the balance of the public interest test favours withholding of the
information in this instance.
Question 4
If the then PSNI consideration determined that a breach may occur what factors influenced PSNI’s
decision to introduce the current paperless system?
Answer 4
PSNI did not consider it as a breach.”
Comments (at least printable) are welcome…..
