Training a dog to come stalking with you

[French David]

Hi,
Does any of you know how to train a GSP to come deer stalking with you ?
I've got a 8month old GSP, she is doing well on her training. I'm tempted to take her with me stalking. but don't know how to teach her deer stalking.....
I've found plenty to tracking training to find wounded or dead deer. but what about the part before the shot ?
Thanks for your help

 

[Klenchblaize]

Watching with interest.

One perhaps obvious observation is to fully consider how your GSP will react to the sound of the shot. Moderated or otherwise.

K

 

[arron]

Get it out on a few 'mock ' stalks , with a hmr or similar if it hasn't been associated with gun fire , I'm doing the same with a WHV we have rehomed, stalk with it at heal , I use a stalking lead , stop often and glass , put rifle on sticks, make an odd shot then wait , see how it reacts , slowly slowly, and good luck and keep us posted

 

[Camdig]

Take her stalking with no expectations and see what happens.
If concerned about shot reaction I would get a friend to shoot at distance with moderated 22 if all good get closer then bigger calibre, she is still young so plenty time.

 

[NullMac]

Deer stalking as far as the dog is concerned is heeling or being in aboot most of the time. And for us it is about watching what the dog’s nose is doing.

I had labs, they work it out for themselves really. They don’t need to haring aboot all the time which helps.

I tried to get clever and have the dog walk about 10 yards in front so he would get the first look up a ride. Deer were curious of him but never seemed to bother very much. That worked until we came across our first hare …

 

[Scotty99]

I’ve just started with my young HWV. I have him on a medium length lead attached to a harness. The harness is so he knows he is going stalking and not after birds. He walks to heal, I stop regularly and make him sit while I glass or scan with the thermal. Sometimes if I get to a vantage point where I know deer might appear I sit him down get the rifle up on sticks and we wait often for 20 minutes or so. His longest sit like this was 45 minutes with me sitting on a fallen tree trunk and him sitting beside me. Other times I’ll make him sit and wait while I go ahead and have a look and then silently “call” him to me, which is just both arms out to the side. I’m practicing this manoeuvre in case I want to go ahead on my own and take a shot. You have to do a lot of obedience training as with any form of working dog training. As for stalking they get the hang of it pretty quickly and you can tell immediately when senses the presence of deer, so watching his body language is important. I started getting him used to the shot with a 22 blank pistol with 6mm blanks and then 22 Long blanks. As for rifle moderated .223 when out foxing with him and now he’s ok with an unmoderated 6mm Remington. Still lots to do and much progress to make but he’s great company.

 

[rem284]

Basics. First, condition the dog to look at you. Lead work:- dog trained to walk at heel, sit every time you stop. Step forward with the leg nearest the dog, dog to follow at heel. Step forward with the leg furthest away from the dog, dog to stay sitting until you return. Recall should be good.

Introduction to shot, the way I do it. No problems experienced:-

Dog feeding in the kennel. Go a good distance from the kennel fire a shot with a moderator on an air rifle. Repeat for a few days, gradually getting closer to the dog. It helps if you have a dog that is already trained beside the new recruit. Repeat the whole of the above but with the sound moderator removed.

Then progress to field conditions. By this time the dog should walk at heel, sit when you stop walking. Should also be able to open shooting sticks without the dog moving. The dog should be trusted to stay while you walk a few metres away and fire a shot. I recommend that you ALWAYS return to the dog whilst training it to stay. DON'T recall the dog.

If the dog is not bothered with the shots, progress onto the same routine but using a moderatored .22lr or similar then without moderator. Progress onto cf but start with a good distance between the dog and rifle. A friend doing the shoot whilst you stay with the dog is also useful. It might all sound ott but I prefer that yo ending up with a problem.

 

[bryn]

Paul Michaels Courses

The Official Page Of Paul Michaels Courses. Home of The Deer Dog Training Blueprint, The Paumiko Dog Guide and now The Bird Dog Training Bootcamp and The Hunting Blueprint.

www.paulmichaelscourses.com

This is what I used (the deer dog training blueprint) and can highly recommend it.
Bryn

 

[French David]

Thank everybody, that's greats advices. I'll start this weekend

 

[Jon P]

Obedience, patience and enjoy it. Will ruin a few stalks to start with. But I hate going out without the dog. Don’t need them very often. But a necessity when you do. I have done some simulated stalks with mine as a pup. Shot taken. Taken to pre laid blood trail and then deer head at end. Not sure if it helped, but was enjoyable to do. Mine 5 yrs old now. Still as mad as a box of frogs. But she enjoys herself

 

[GlennUK]

I've been think about our new pup, a English Pointer she's only a couple of months old ATM and is my wife's dog. We have an older English Pointer but she is 'gun shy' in fact she is 'anything' that makes a noise shy sadly.

The point made above about getting the dog to look at you/obedience training is spot on.

 

[Heym SR20]

Not GWP, but LabxBMH experience. The pre shot bit is basic training to walk to heal or just out in front and to stop and sit when you stop. It takes time.

With my hound we have never really got a good reliable walk to heal. I have also used her as a beating dog - at which she is excellent- she has plenty of drive and is always looking for prey. But I haven’t yet found the off switch.

When stalking she is on a long training lead and she works ahead of me. I keep one hand on the lead but often just drop it on the ground so can tread on it if needs be.

I have learnt to read her and she knows when deer are close buy. There have been plenty of occasions when I have ignored her signals and blundered into things.

In terms of blood trailing, use fresh blood, or dried blood fir a dog training emporium. Lay short trails with a treat at the end and work her down it. They quickly get the idea.

And build up the length. Work her down wind so she is forced to the scent on the ground.

When out stalking you will on occasion want to leave her behind so can get into last bit. You want her able to sit by a tree or in the field (I keep her on the lead with it looped around the tree or fence post). Ideally she should just and wait in command and stat until called. They may well squeek, but provided you are stalking into wind, I haven’t found this really matters. Indeed I have found deer looking in the direction of the dog and not at me.

After the shot get into the habit of waiting. Indeed when training her I would leave her and go firwards and then drag the deer many yards. Then take her to where you think the deer was standing and get here to work the trail.

They very quickly get the idea.

The difference between an amateur stalking dog that is really a companion and that of a professional one is just time in the field and experience.

Personally I really like having my hound with me. But I do plenty of stalkers where the hound remains in the truck and is only brought out for the follow up after the shot bit.

 

[Feugh]

Paul Michaels Courses

The Official Page Of Paul Michaels Courses. Home of The Deer Dog Training Blueprint, The Paumiko Dog Guide and now The Bird Dog Training Bootcamp and The Hunting Blueprint.

www.paulmichaelscourses.com

This is what I used (the deer dog training blueprint) and can highly recommend it.
Bryn

i also use the deer dog blueprint. Take a look on YouTube to see exactly what deer dogs can do.

My first hwv was easy to train because she was so biddable. My second is much more headstrong and wanted to chase deer rather than indicate them. She’s getting better and I’ve had her out on live stalks but it has been hard work.

 

[Dunwaters]

The walking to heel is essential, but HPR’s stalking will naturally walk a couple of metres ahead and will indicate deer . They’re not too keen on following an old blood trail unless trained to it, but they are sharks on a hot scent, they will run it fast and head up and generally are not shy about closing and pulling down. They can be a bit gobby in a sit out and don’t expect it to sit quietly in the car while you dander off, that can get expensive.. you can train them to hunt both birds and fur, but don’t expect them to win too many field trials. A dog that will pull down a deer might not be too gentle retrieving a pheasant runner.
They love to range out. Train for deer first, then let them out on birds. They learn what you’re after and act accordingly, but it takes a while.
Best of luck.

 

[Zio65]

Reading this interesting discussion I can't find any advice if the dog, when excited, in the ambush makes yelps or noises, I notice that it happens often

 

[Polar Lynx]

Dogs learn from other dogs and more so than from a human. If possible, bring the young dog together with an older and experiencd one and soon the young will adopt to suitable behaviour.

 

[Dunwaters]

Reading this interesting discussion I can't find any advice if the dog, when excited, in the ambush makes yelps or noises, I notice that it happens often

You can train most of the gobbyness out, generally they don’t do it when they’re excited, they do it when they’re bored and want to remind you that they’re around.

 

[CAVHUNT]

Here's a [very] broad guide to how I do it for gun dogs and sambar. I tailor the training to suit each particular dog being trained...like us they are all individuals and have their own idiosyncrasies.

Firing training shots is all well and good and looking back at the dog for a reaction is ok if you've walked away from ....but...what's in it for the dog. You make noise, grab the lead and go home...boring and doesn't give the dog any incentive to be interested in what you are doing with the rifle. Preparation is the key. At some distance from where you will be shooting...say 20/30 yards... from with the breeze going from your "plant' to you and the dog. Place a piece of fresh...or defrosted frozen...piece of deer skin some 12 inches square on the ground. Fire the shots and return to the dog. The dog should be scenting the skin so under healing control walk in with lots of enthusiasm to where the skin is. When it "finds" the skin have 'tug of war' games with it. At games end take the skin from the dog, cut a slice off for it to eat.

In the week/s before this training have a few 'tug of war' games with your dog in the back yard. This ensures the dog will want to find more if he scents it when out training with the rifle and have more fun.

If you haven't got deer skin use an alternative aka rabbit or hare. The dog will easily transfer its focus to any species you use.

Good luck...training gun dogs can sometimes be both fun and frustrating.

 

[Heym SR20]

You do need to think very carefully about what you actually want the dog to do.

I do not want a dog to chase deer and to pull them down. But I want a dog that will smell deer, point deer, and then on the follow find dead pr wounded deer for me.

As regards pulling down wounded deer, many deer have sharp pointy things on their heads that they use to defend themselves from an attacking predator. They can do a lot of damage to a dog.

Much better IMHO is to use the dog to find where the deer is and shoot it again, or if that is not possible just back out and leave the deer to die quietly in peace rather than subjecting it to the stress of being chased.

 

[VSS]

Dogs learn from other dogs and more so than from a human. If possible, bring the young dog together with an older and experiencd one and soon the young will adopt to suitable behaviour.

That's not a good way to train a dog, for any kind of work.