Trophy heads - are we falling into a trap or just a marketing ploy?

[Foxyboy43]

So ok let’s get controversial chaps…
Every right thinking stalker would agree (I hope) that a roe doe at whatever distance is no less easy/difficult to shoot than a gold medal buck at the same range. Equally, finding and shooting a medal class buck is largely down to luck/management or dare I say it opportunism (dramatic pause for sharp intake of SD collective’s breath) especially when big bucks means err… big bucks. This also applies to stags of course.
Sooo why has our beloved sport in this day and age majored on the “bigger is better” and costs to match, approach?
Time to hold my hand up - I take no greater pleasure from shooting a medal class deer than that for a one-antlered, one-eared, one-eyed doe/buck so why do we as a group fall over ourselves whenever a “magnificent” deer is harvested? Do we need to look at all of this from the other end of the ahem, telescope? Should we give more credence to simply harvesting a creature which will grace our table rather than hang on our wall? Will the memory be even greater because the quarry had 12 points rather than say eight?
Moreover and in summary why should this bigger is best and “trophies” be such a factor in our thinking - many countries (including ours) are railing against the whole concept so is this finally something we, as a (threatened) group should really address?
Before I get the usual opprobrium, I would ask you to just stop for a minute, catch breath and think about what I have asked of you - it is an entirely honest question, give me latitude for daring to ask it before hammering the keyboard.
I truly think that we need to deal with this - and soon…

 

[enfieldspares]

The kill defines the trophy. There's no stuff in, say, shooting a royal if it's a deer kept in a one acre enclosure just the same as there's no stuff in taking chicken out the pen and cutting its throat. So the kill and often what led up to the kill and the circumstances of the kill define the trophy. A pair of ptarmigan shot as a left and a right in the "bleak midwinter" are in my mind a far greater candidate for mounting and casing than say even the longest tailed Reeve's pheasant shot at thirty yards driven overhead on a double gunned three hundred bird day.

 

[VSS]

So ok let’s get controversial chaps…
Every right thinking stalker would agree (I hope) that a roe doe at whatever distance is no less easy/difficult to shoot than a gold medal buck at the same range. Equally, finding and shooting a medal class buck is largely down to luck/management or dare I say it opportunism (dramatic pause for sharp intake of SD collective’s breath) especially when big bucks means err… big bucks. This also applies to stags of course.
Sooo why has our beloved sport in this day and age majored on the “bigger is better” and costs to match, approach?
Time to hold my hand up - I take no greater pleasure from shooting a medal class deer than that for a one-antlered, one-eared, one-eyed doe/buck so why do we as a group fall over ourselves whenever a “magnificent” deer is harvested? Do we need to look at all of this from the other end of the ahem, telescope? Should we give more credence to simply harvesting a creature which will grace our table rather than hang on our wall? Will the memory be even greater because the quarry had 12 points rather than say eight?
Moreover and in summary why should this bigger is best and “trophies” be such a factor in our thinking - many countries (including ours) are railing against the whole concept so is this finally something we, as a (threatened) group should really address?
Before I get the usual opprobrium, I would ask you to just stop for a minute, catch breath and think about what I have asked of you - it is an entirely honest question, give me latitude for daring to ask it before hammering the keyboard.
I truly think that we need to deal with this - and soon…

Good post ^^^

 

[bobt]

I turned down a gold roebuck a few years back, he later was sold to a continental for a few grand,

 

[VSS]

The kill defines the trophy. There's no stuff in, say, shooting a royal if it's a deer kept in a one acre enclosure just the same as there's no stuff in taking chicken out the pen and cutting its throat. So the kill and often what led up to the kill and the circumstances of the kill define the trophy. A pair of ptarmigan shot as a left and a right in the "bleak midwinter" are in my mind a far greater candidate for mounting and casing than say even the longest tailed Reeve's pheasant shot at thirty yards driven overhead on a double gunned three hundred bird day.

But there's folk out there who'll pay mega money to shoot a stag under the conditions you describe above, if he's got bigger antlers than any other stag they're ever likely to come across. It's been done before (although to be fair, the stag has at times been released from it's confinement just before the paying stalking party arrives on the hill, just to add that touch of authenticity), and will no doubt continue to happen.

 

[Jelen]

You said it yourself above "especially when big bucks means err… big bucks". That, coupled with the macho attitude of a lot of stalkers out there who are prepared to pay the money. You could justify it if the venison went on the table and the money went towards crop damage/deer management. Otherwise, Yes I agree with you.
You might want to get in the trench and don a helmet

 

[sh1kar]

Broadly I agree with you, except for one thing and it's probably only really relevant for those with their own stalking rather than the ad hoc paying guest. It is this. Often during the doe season or walking the dogs and spying, you spot a particularly fine animal, it may not be a medal, just big or far more interestingly a malform. You then over a period of likely several stalks attempt to outwit the beast and bring it to book. So you have essentially chosen to go after a very specific animal that may give you several days of La Chasse rather than stumbling over a big lad on a days paid stalk. Or in my case one year, find the buck several times but one thing or another conspired against getting it, only for it to disappear at the end of the season and never seen again! JMTCW

S

 

[TringSaint]

So ok let’s get controversial chaps…
Every right thinking stalker would agree (I hope) that a roe doe at whatever distance is no less easy/difficult to shoot than a gold medal buck at the same range. Equally, finding and shooting a medal class buck is largely down to luck/management or dare I say it opportunism (dramatic pause for sharp intake of SD collective’s breath) especially when big bucks means err… big bucks. This also applies to stags of course.
Sooo why has our beloved sport in this day and age majored on the “bigger is better” and costs to match, approach?
Time to hold my hand up - I take no greater pleasure from shooting a medal class deer than that for a one-antlered, one-eared, one-eyed doe/buck so why do we as a group fall over ourselves whenever a “magnificent” deer is harvested? Do we need to look at all of this from the other end of the ahem, telescope? Should we give more credence to simply harvesting a creature which will grace our table rather than hang on our wall? Will the memory be even greater because the quarry had 12 points rather than say eight?
Moreover and in summary why should this bigger is best and “trophies” be such a factor in our thinking - many countries (including ours) are railing against the whole concept so is this finally something we, as a (threatened) group should really address?
Before I get the usual opprobrium, I would ask you to just stop for a minute, catch breath and think about what I have asked of you - it is an entirely honest question, give me latitude for daring to ask it before hammering the keyboard.
I truly think that we need to deal with this - and soon…

Totally agree!
I couldn’t give a stuff about trophy heads.
I shoot what I need to and if it has antlers /gnashers then so be it.
The number of silver and gold medal cwd buck heads I have chucked in the hedge over the years is not insignificant!!

 

[lochty]

This will probably make a bronze, but the only reason I shot it was he was in an enclosed plantation and had trashed part of the fence with another. Outside of that, I would have doffed my cap and let him go.

 

[Foxyboy43]

But there's folk out there who'll pay mega money to shoot a stag under the conditions you describe above, if he's got bigger antlers than any other stag they're ever likely to come across. It's been done before (although to be fair, the stag has at times been released from it's confinement just before the paying stalking party arrives on the hill, just to add that touch of authenticity), and will no doubt continue to happen.

That is inevitably a consequence of the “willy-waving’ common in some (overseas) countries and something to be discouraged…

 

[Foxyboy43]

You said it yourself above "especially when big bucks means err… big bucks". That, coupled with the macho attitude of a lot of stalkers out there who are prepared to pay the money. You could justify it if the venison went on the table and the money went towards crop damage/deer management. Otherwise, Yes I agree with you.
You might want to get in the trench and don a helmet

Thank you - at my age a helmet is unnecessary - I have been, on occasion, insulted by experts…
I do feel that as a community we need to step back and look afresh at our “values” (hate that word). This may be painful for the professional stalker with their inevitable dependency on “high value” trophy animals but to sit and play the communal violin whilst Rome burns is folly in the extreme…

 

[Foxyboy43]

But there's folk out there who'll pay mega money to shoot a stag under the conditions you describe above, if he's got bigger antlers than any other stag they're ever likely to come across. It's been done before (although to be fair, the stag has at times been released from it's confinement just before the paying stalking party arrives on the hill, just to add that touch of authenticity), and will no doubt continue to happen.

I think we need to honest here - releasing “farmed” animals the day before or even on the day is not acceptable - to me and I suspect to the general public. That is on a par with releasing partridges from crates over the guns which we all know is going on - on a shoot near you….

 

[Foxyboy43]

View attachment 449929This will probably make a bronze, but the only reason I shot it was he was in an enclosed plantation and had trashed part of the fence with another. Outside of that, I would have doffed my cap and let him go.

Perfectly defensible position - size of the beast or quality of head was not a consideration.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Broadly I agree with you, except for one thing and it's probably only really relevant for those with their own stalking rather than the ad hoc paying guest. It is this. Often during the doe season or walking the dogs and spying, you spot a particularly fine animal, it may not be a medal, just big or far more interestingly a malform. You then over a period of likely several stalks attempt to outwit the beast and bring it to book. So you have essentially chosen to go after a very specific animal that may give you several days of La Chasse rather than stumbling over a big lad on a days paid stalk. Or in my case one year, find the buck several times but one thing or another conspired against getting it, only for it to disappear at the end of the season and never seen again! JMTCW

S

Indeed but surely that is the attraction of the chase of wild animals to we happy(ish) band of deer stalkers?
As a mad thought why not have fees “per animal” regardless of sex rather than specific sex and quality of head either of which can provide the quality of hunt/stalk we so enjoy?

 

[25 Sharps]

So ok let’s get controversial chaps…
Every right thinking stalker would agree (I hope) that a roe doe at whatever distance is no less easy/difficult to shoot than a gold medal buck at the same range. Equally, finding and shooting a medal class buck is largely down to luck/management or dare I say it opportunism (dramatic pause for sharp intake of SD collective’s breath) especially when big bucks means err… big bucks. This also applies to stags of course.
Sooo why has our beloved sport in this day and age majored on the “bigger is better” and costs to match, approach?
Time to hold my hand up - I take no greater pleasure from shooting a medal class deer than that for a one-antlered, one-eared, one-eyed doe/buck so why do we as a group fall over ourselves whenever a “magnificent” deer is harvested? Do we need to look at all of this from the other end of the ahem, telescope? Should we give more credence to simply harvesting a creature which will grace our table rather than hang on our wall? Will the memory be even greater because the quarry had 12 points rather than say eight?
Moreover and in summary why should this bigger is best and “trophies” be such a factor in our thinking - many countries (including ours) are railing against the whole concept so is this finally something we, as a (threatened) group should really address?
Before I get the usual opprobrium, I would ask you to just stop for a minute, catch breath and think about what I have asked of you - it is an entirely honest question, give me latitude for daring to ask it before hammering the keyboard.
I truly think that we need to deal with this - and soon…

Don’t know why but I remember more of the specific big bucks that I have shot than the does, which generally blend into one unless there was something remarkable about the stalk, the shot or the doe (antlers or poor condition for example).

I’ve had a lot of representative bucks over the years but the really big ones do stand out in my memory.

As for the actual stalk, the enjoyment of that doesn’t really change based on the sex or trophy size, more about the stalk. If anything roe does should give more enjoyment and satisfaction than the bucks as they are always far more aware than their male companions.

 

[Apthorpe]

Trophies aren't to my taste at all, but who does it benefit to disparage those people who value such an animal at thousands, rather than merely £2 a kg?
If someone values shooting a fine headed animal highly, so much the better for everyone. All this anti-trophy hunting stuff is nothing more or less than emotive silliness generated by antis, and should be treated as such.

 

[enfieldspares]

Here's my late father's "trophy".

 

[sh1kar]

Here's my late father's "trophy".

View attachment 449941

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[enfieldspares]

Link not working
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Hope it is now?

 

[sako751sg]

Trophies aren't to my taste at all, but who does it benefit to disparage those people who value such an animal at thousands, rather than merely £2 a kg?
If someone values shooting a fine headed animal highly, so much the better for everyone. All this anti-trophy hunting stuff is nothing more or less than emotive silliness generated by antis, and should be treated as such.

Most sensible thing i've read on the internet today.