Advantages of a Thermal Scope VERSUS Day /night scope, illuminator and thermal spotter ?

[ShotKam 0]

I am looking for other stalkers opinions on the advantages of a Thermal Scope VERSUS Day /night scope, illuminator and thermal spotter. I know it is a large jump in cost, however perhaps the benefit of an all in one unit far outweighs the increased initial investment - that is what I am keen to know.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

Perhaps an additional 10 minutes legal shooting, dawn and dusk would be an advantage of a thermal scope. I would have said that digital would give the advantage of more clarity and the ability to see branches/brush in front of quarry that thermal scope wouldn't pick up - but the image through thermal is getting better all the time. As you state, the other advantage of digital is the cost saving.

I will soon be trialling a ThermTec Huntpro 650 clip on - perhaps clip-ons give the best of both worlds?

EDIT - even with a thermal scope, you still need a thermal monocular/binos for spotting quarry.

 

[ShotKam 0]

Perhaps an additional 10 minutes legal shooting, dawn and dusk would be an advantage of a thermal scope. I would have said that digital would give the advantage of more clarity and the ability to see branches/brush in front of quarry that thermal scope wouldn't pick up - but the image through thermal is getting better all the time. As you state, the other advantage of digital is the cost saving.

I will soon be trialling a ThermTec Huntpro 650 clip on - perhaps clip-ons give the best of both worlds?

EDIT - even with a thermal scope, you still need a thermal monocular/binos for spotting quarry.

Yes, spotter in addition always. Can you switch from Thermal to Digital on some high end thermals to pick up on the detail or do you need to add on a separate illuminator ?

 

[Keith Edmunds]

Yes, spotter in addition always. Can you switch from Thermal to Digital on some high end thermals to pick up on the detail or do you need to add on a separate illuminator ?

I am no expert on the geeky stuff but as far as scopes are concerned, I think you'll find they are one or the other. The new digital/thermal binos obviously use both technologies because you have two separate tubes. My stalking buddy currently uses a Swaro thermal clip on which he removes once the light is sufficient and I really do feel that gives the best of both worlds and I can't wait to start using the Therm Tec clip on. While you might only gain 5-10 minutes with thermal over digital, that could be the time that the deer come out - especially in a dusk situation with herding deer. Digital probably gives the same 5-10 minutes advantage over glass.

 

[kenbro]

Google DNT Multispectral.
NV and Thermal in same scope.
KB.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

Google DNT Multispectral.
NV and Thermal in same scope.
KB.

I stand corrected

 

[One on top of two]

I have always been an a NV fan , i have a still use a drone pro x10 and an alpex A50E along with a condor CQ50 L v2 and its a great set up .
But i started to get frustrated , especially this time of year with the fog and mist , as you know NV doesn't work very well in those conditions and so it ment and early day or early night if im foxing . So i finally opted to go full thermal with a decent QD mount with a reliable RTZ . Gives me lots of options over different rifles in varying conditions , thermal works really well in mist and light fog to a good degree certainly enough to shoot out to a good 200 yards most of the time .
Personally i think it's brilliant and things have certainly moved on tech wise .
Even on full zoom the image on my scope is great .

 

[Smelly Yeti]

Until now I’ve always used thermal spotter with IR scope & illuminator for night. My main reason for this choice was for final confirmation before shot as, for me, thermal scopes initially lacked the definition needed to positively ID quarry at some of the distances needed. Recognition/species identification was normally via movement pattern & general behaviour rather than being able to say 100% from visual ID. Also difficult to range using thermal & you often won’t pick up on undergrowth or even branches between you & the target? However…… thermal scopes have come on a long way since then & the clarity/definition is now such that with (most) scopes you can be far more confident on visual ID alone. Most also come fully loaded with Laser Range Finding & ballistic calculators etc giving you even more confidence in taking the shot. So much so that I’ve just switched to a ‘multi spectral’ scope (hate the wording but not mentioning brands) which I feel now offers the best compromise for my personal shooting needs - full digital day capability with ability to switch to thermal once daylight fails & added ‘picture in picture’ function to allow mix of both if needed. No LRF but I always range out my permissions anyway when I first take them on so not a big issue for me? Pro’s - lighter weight, less to snag/knock on clothing/undergrowth etc, better functionality of one rifle over both day & night, less to forget when heading out foxing (have driven to permission on more than one occasion just to find I’d left illuminator at home or forgotten to fully charge it or change the battery!), less faff (switching on scope & illuminator only to find out the illuminator is now slightly misaligned, flaring out etc), not as prone to mist & fog as others have said Cons- Price!!, depending on personal view still arguably better to final ID visually & get last check for undergrowth/obstructions? Anyway - just personal thoughts but hope it helps.

 

[ShotKam 0]

Until now I’ve always used thermal spotter with IR scope & illuminator for night. My main reason for this choice was for final confirmation before shot as, for me, thermal scopes initially lacked the definition needed to positively ID quarry at some of the distances needed. Recognition/species identification was normally via movement pattern & general behaviour rather than being able to say 100% from visual ID. Also difficult to range using thermal & you often won’t pick up on undergrowth or even branches between you & the target? However…… thermal scopes have come on a long way since then & the clarity/definition is now such that with (most) scopes you can be far more confident on visual ID alone. Most also come fully loaded with Laser Range Finding & ballistic calculators etc giving you even more confidence in taking the shot. So much so that I’ve just switched to a ‘multi spectral’ scope (hate the wording but not mentioning brands) which I feel now offers the best compromise for my personal shooting needs - full digital day capability with ability to switch to thermal once daylight fails & added ‘picture in picture’ function to allow mix of both if needed. No LRF but I always range out my permissions anyway when I first take them on so not a big issue for me? Pro’s - lighter weight, less to snag/knock on clothing/undergrowth etc, better functionality of one rifle over both day & night, less to forget when heading out foxing (have driven to permission on more than one occasion just to find I’d left illuminator at home or forgotten to fully charge it or change the battery!), less faff (switching on scope & illuminator only to find out the illuminator is now slightly misaligned, flaring out etc), not as prone to mist & fog as others have said Cons- Price!!, depending on personal view still arguably better to final ID visually & get last check for undergrowth/obstructions? Anyway - just personal thoughts but hope it helps.

Excellent advice thankyou

 

[One on top of two]

Just to give you an idea , there was a bit of a mist in places starting to form around trailer .

But you could easy pop bunny's at 200 plus on full mag .

 

[ShotKam 0]

That is absolutely phenomenal, which is why I will stick with Nocpix. What a difference with the 1280 sensor. Not long before spotters have the 1280 Thermal Sensor available !

 

[Blackwood Outdoors]

That is absolutely phenomenal, which is why I will stick with Nocpix. What a difference with the 1280 sensor. Not long before spotters have the 1280 Thermal Sensor available !

They already do, the Vista S50R.

 

[Corf30]

What would be a really good choice of scope and thermal add on?

 

[Corf30]

I have zeiss v4s and S and B 8 x56s which add ons work well with these?

 

[andyk]

For an add on you want a low base mag. I find three issues if I go too high with mine, being:

1. the image gets very pixelated.
2. you won’t be able to see a lot of the menu or other information, such as battery status, as you increasingly limit yourself to the most central part of the screen.
3. leading from that, you lose field of view.

That doesn’t matter too much if you have a variable that goes high in zoom, but does if you don’t have the ability to wind it back to low. 2-3 base mag is best, with 4-5 at tops.

The main advantage I find is if you shoot things like muntjac in wood with quite a lot of brash and the like, the ability to keep track of the animal as it moves in and out is really helpful. NV will help when the light dims, but you’ve still got the same trouble of keeping track of the animal.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

For an add on you want a low base mag. I find three issues if I go too high with mine, being:

1. the image gets very pixelated.
2. you won’t be able to see a lot of the menu or other information, such as battery status, as you increasingly limit yourself to the most central part of the screen.
3. leading from that, you lose field of view.

That doesn’t matter too much if you have a variable that goes high in zoom, but does if you don’t have the ability to wind it back to low. 2-3 base mag is best, with 4-5 at tops.

The main advantage I find is if you shoot things like muntjac in wood with quite a lot of brash and the like, the ability to keep track of the animal as it moves in and out is really helpful. NV will help when the light dims, but you’ve still got the same trouble of keeping track of the animal.

What scope/clip-on combo are you using Andy?

 

[andyk]

I’ve got a Pulsar Krypton 2, I had been using it with a Zeiss V6 3-18 and that worked really well with it. I also used my old Krypton 1 on a Swaro V6 2.5-15 and that was even better. It’s currently on a Schmidt 4-16 and while I can see the menu options, it’s already starting to clip the bottom of the screen with the battery, mode etc. If you have to adjust the POI some of the display for that function is right in the edge of what you can see.

I’ll happily crank up the mag once I’m on target, it’s just being stuck without low mag makes it hard to use.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

I’ve got a Pulsar Krypton 2, I had been using it with a Zeiss V6 3-18 and that worked really well with it. I also used my old Krypton 1 on a Swaro V6 2.5-15 and that was even better. It’s currently on a Schmidt 4-16 and while I can see the menu options, it’s already starting to clip the bottom of the screen with the battery, mode etc. If you have to adjust the POI some of the display for that function is right in the edge of what you can see.

I’ll happily crank up the mag once I’m on target, it’s just being stuck without low mag makes it hard to use.

I'll be putting mine on an Amplus 2.5-15 x 56 so hopefully that'll work well.

 

[JH83]

I was lucky enough to get an invite for boar recently, so took my 7mm RM which currently wears an Alpex 4k. My mate has a blaser 6.5 with a pulsar Duo so I could compare the 2.

On the open fields on a bright night the alpex was tremendous without IR, you could easily see what you were shooting out to 250 yards. If it wasn’t so bright I’m sure the IR would have been employed to great effect.

In the woods things got tricky, the glare from IR on close up branches was severe-although I did successfully kill one. As soon as the fog descended it killed the IR with glare, although the alpex dealt with it well without. The duo would have had no issues in either scenario.

For those who shoot largely evenings/night a quality thermal scope has got everything else beat-especially in the woods and in poor atmospheric conditions, but the alpex can certain hang with it in limited areas. Then there’s the price, £700 vs £3k-possibly an unfair comparison. I also suspect the alpex is much more versatile in the day. As to whether it’s worth the jump financially depends on the job at hand.