IWA 26 Nuremberg PSE Rifle Balance

[Tikkat1x]

Our goal this year is to completely change from older Gen stocks to our new Evolution method of stock making and reduce lead times. Upscaling is not easy as the process is complicated and either Peter or myself are strongly involved in the quality side of each stock but we will get there. Peter has yet to get a day off work this year....
edi

I will tell my mate keep up the good work.

 

[Dalua]

If the rifle is 100% balanced, as measured on this jig….

Wouldn’t this balance be thrown off considerably by simply holding the rifle while firing it? IE the person firing the rifle by holding the rifle becomes attached to the rifle and has a marked effect on its balance (when compared to a rifle when viewed on its own)

I suggested this, but have a look at post 13 above.

I'm just not sure how that view is compatible with the later suggestion that hold does indeed influence the point of impact - a point on which I'd imagine most rifle-shooters who hold their rifles when firing them would agree. I have always understood, perhaps wrongly, that the bullet and the rifle start moving at the same time - and that that's why hold (all aspects of hold, not just on the forend) influences the POI. This effect is presumably reduced with heavier rifles and/or lower-recoiling loads - but nevertheless...

Am I missing something?

 

[chriswjx]

No, try avoid lead. Just look at balance when setting up a rifle. Mostly stock side is too heavy. Of course the effect is more the further out you shoot. The issue is that a rifle which is not balanced over the bore will not be consistent if held differently. The balanced rifle will not or be less effected by forend hold etc. The calculations that were made with a 308 rifle had around 2" POI change at 100m on a COG off centre bore in one example. These 2" are no problem (can be zeroed on the scope) if the rifle is always held consistently, one reason why we see some shooters being much better than others.
edi

Feel like there's a lot more to those calculations. And also there really needs to be more study done on actual relevance.

Using your example data of 2" POI change at 100m due to COG off centre - assuming a 20" barrel, this becomes a similar triangles problem.

(a) being how much shift should give a 2" POI change at 100m. a = 0.255mm. There's things like bipod flexing on soft ground (or even carpet) that would surely give a greater deflection...

 

[The Singing Stalker]

I did the math and came up with 2 inches. Nice to see, I am on the right track.
Ok, I understand now.

The point is not that this will make not make you a brilliant marksman, but it removes one more potential thing that and it could assist with improving groups.

 

[HonestJohn]

What do you do if you can’t just add a bigger and heavier magazine to balance the rifle? Eg. Fixed floorplate.

What if it’s too heavy and you need to remove weight but nowhere to take it from

 

[ejg]

I suggested this, but have a look at post 13 above.

I'm just not sure how that view is compatible with the later suggestion that hold does indeed influence the point of impact - a point on which I'd imagine most rifle-shooters who hold their rifles when firing them would agree. I have always understood, perhaps wrongly, that the bullet and the rifle start moving at the same time - and that that's why hold (all aspects of hold, not just on the forend) influences the POI. This effect is presumably reduced with heavier rifles and/or lower-recoiling loads - but nevertheless...

Am I missing something?

I think what is missing is the stiffness aspect, holding a rifle is not ultimately stiff, you are not pushing up more than the weight therefore it won't go up or down.. left or right within the "2mm" vital recoil, skin flexes etc, no stiffness in the shoulder within the 2mm recoil and very little influence on the recoil.
Similar a loaded bipod which has a bit of slop.
What is important for the balance or any rifle is that the complete rifle system is stiff, bedded and no slop between stock and action. Bad bedding or rubber stocks are known to have issues with precision.... balanced or not. We have been designing our stocks since the beginning to transfer recoil from the lug as direct as possible into the complete stock. Stiff carbon fibre from the lug directly out into the shell via a skeleton structure, front to back of the stock.
Yes of course, bipods, hold, position of recoil engaging the shoulder and even on which surface a rifle sits will influence later stages of recoil much more. Sight picture is an issue of the later stage of recoil, watching the bullet travel or impact on an animal. The roughly one millisecond that the bullet travels down the barrel is the vital one for accuracy. Once a rifle is balanced one does not need to muscle it as much anyway. I prefer to hold a rifle fairly loose or relaxed.

one video I found that explains it similar with a stronger look on sight picture.



edi

 

[ejg]

What do you do if you can’t just add a bigger and heavier magazine to balance the rifle? Eg. Fixed floorplate.

What if it’s too heavy and you need to remove weight but nowhere to take it from

If it is top heavy, use a lighter scope, or lighter mounts or mount the scope lower.

edi

 

[suburban bushwacker]

Yes, we need a bit more graphic explanation of forces and reaction. This little page we had at shot for a quick explanation.



edi

Edi the media isn't loading - pls repost

 

[ejg]

Edi the media isn't loading - pls repost