Mauser 98 early 20th century - Hunting/Sporting

[HonestJohn]

The Mauser Standard Expert and Rigby Highland Stalker are pretty much the same retail price and obviously both owned by the Blaser group

I had the impression the HL stalker was priced under, maybe I’m wrong. It happens
Yes, same rifles, one is just tarted up by Rigby

 

[Essexsussex]

What’s the view on FN actions with a the finger slot cut out? Less desirable than the commercial actions?

Honestjohn you keep making me think about the Mauser actions despite my love of the husqvarna 1900s

 

[Essexsussex]

Like this one

 

[Foxyboy43]

Lovely rifles with both history and class aplenty - sadly with prices to match.
Meanwhile down here this is the closest I will ever come to having one - horticultural it may be but with the mount and a scope it shoots minute of deer all day long…

 

[harrygrey382]

We all know the romance of the Rigby .275 that WDM Bell and Jim Corbett have forged into history, and it does give a modern Rigby, like the Highland Stalker, a great pedigree.

But what of the original Mauser 98 as an European mainland hunting tool? Surely there must be some great stories of these rifles in the hands of famous German, Danish or Austrian hunters of a bygone age?

As I have said before......if (when) I had the money to spend, it would be a really tough choice between the Rigby Highland Stalker and the Mauser 98 Standard Expert. My heart would go for the romance of the Rigby but my head prefers the styling of the Mauser.

Are there any Germanic heroic tales of the Mauser that match the Rigby's legacy?

MAUSER 98 Standard Expert – The Original Bolt‑Action Rifle

The MAUSER 98 Standard Expert represents the improved original. A classic bolt‑action rifle with walnut stock, fine craftsmanship and true MAUSER heritage.

www.mauser.com

The Highland Stalker - John Rigby & Co.

www.johnrigbyandco.com

Awesome question and great topic you’ve started! I think if we were native German speakers - or maybe even French, Spanish or Portuguese we might find there are more legendary stories involving orignal Oberndorf sporters, but we’re lumped with the English ones so we get the Rigby tales. Although I do think due to the size ongoing (at the time of essentially unchecked hunting) British empire and the associated sporting aristocracy there are probably more stories of Brits at the time, who would be more likely to use a British supplied gun than German.

I LOVE original Oberndorf sporters (so much so that I built a Tribute), but I find the new Mauser sporter styling to be a bit too chunky and generic. If you had the money I’d suggest tracking down an original - it’ll appreciate better and will be a nicer rifle to own. Big caveat being the new one will be better with a scope.

Nothing beats a good Mauser based rifle for quality and class in the bolt action world. Period.

Mauser themselves only made a short line of commercial rifles in the 98 action, as per my earlier picture. These are considered some of, if not the finest Mauser rifles ever made. Only a handful in original condition exists worldwide.

99% of Mauser rifles were of course, rifles made by fine gunsmiths in Germany, Austria, etc, on the better surplus military actions.Ferlach, of course, stands out.

Many other companies made the Mauser 98, Brno, PH, interarms, FN, Husqvarna, and the list goes on.

They were made in large ring standard size, and large ring intermediate, as well as the kurtz short action, ‘the’ hens teeth rifle action. Equally rare are the magnum actions with double square bridges.
The type A, type B and type C had a variety of triggers, floor plates, stock designs, open sight arrangements, and standard, single square or double square bridges.
The Type A and B were predominantly the ‘fancier’ varieties, going to wealthier Europeans and to African. There was a semi-stutzen version called the Afrikaans, very cool.

Typical chamberings were 8x57 JS, later IS, and 7x57. The 8x57 rifles were changed to 8x60 after the Versailles treaty banned Germany from producing military calibres. At this stage Mauser themselves made the Type B, identified by the Mauserwerke action rather than the Waffenfabrik, double set triggers and two or three leaf standing rear sights, vs the tangent sights in earlier production. They also commercialised the stock to be more ‘modern’, including a grip cap, and a floorplate with a swing lever instead of the military push button. The earlier stocks from around 1901 to 1912 were rounded grips.

These ‘proper’ commercial mauser actions were easily identifiable by their pear shaped bolt handle, a feature all fine rifle makers with Mauser actions try to replicate.

The earlier commercial actions in large ring from waffenfabrik Oberndorf, are considered the best Mauser actions ever made, both in metallurgical aspects and tolerances.

Barelled actions and semi finished stocks were sent to John Rigby for their own commercialisation to the U.K. market. Earlier variants included the small ring 98, even the 96.

Mauser made fine 22 rifles in the MS350 and ES 350 series, as well as 410 and 420. Beautiful and well made.

Apart from the pre war and post war productions of the type A B and C, Mauser only really made quite unsuccessful commercial rifles, including the 66, 77, 2000 (Mausers only left hand rifle up to then), m12 and now the m18.

Of course, a few years ago Mauser attempted to reintroduce the m98, but failed miserably due to the extreme price point. The blacking is nitride, sights look to be recknagel, barrel taken from another production line, stock is cnc cut and laser checkered, and stock not properly finished. The action is lovely, but does not offer anything a good surplus military action will, I’d rather take an Argentine 1909 custom build any day. Sadly, they also did a ‘Parker Hale’ bolt handle scallop job to clear the modern day large ocular bells, instead of setting the bolt handle back closer to the bolt body, or shaping it like the FN and Dumoulin versions from Belgium…very fine actions indeed, and true commercial designs without the thump slot for pushing down clip strips.

Personally, I believe Mauser have an opportunity to reintroduce the Mauser 98 rifle, but sadly their economies of scale will not allow them to machine the actions at a price point where they can be competitive.

A commercial Mauser 98, made BY Mauser, should come out under £3000 in my view. And at that price, I suspect a well designed offering will capture the market, especially in the US.

Great post - you obviously have a passion for Oberndorfs, IMO the pinnacle of hunting rifles. I agree 100% with your opening sentence. Do you own the superb rifle you pictured?

According to “Mauser Heat Treat In Brief” by Nathaniel Myers, Oberndorf changed their heat treatment in 1933 from case hardening of a few specific areas (via pack hardening with bone charcoal) to through hardening of the entire receiver using an oil bath of DurFerrit, resulting in higher overall strength . His source of info is original Mauser documentation provided by Jon Speed, and I believe it’s correct. IE - receivers made after 1933 are considered a higher strength. However, this is broadly not that relevant, as it has been shown over and over that pre 1933 receivers are absolutely capable of holding 270win pressures (65k psi, as high as anything nowadays bar the new 7mm Back Country). I believe the switch from Waffenfabrik to MauserWerke was mid 1920s? While they used up their remaining stock of commercial actions.

It’s true the finishing was slightly higher in the earlier sporters. IE the rust bluing was only applied to the external surfaces (latter may have been hot tank blues?), and the running surfaces were polished in the white. Tolerances I’m not so sure there was such a difference - have you got examples? I have a slight preference for the later capped pistol grips, and the Type B’s subtle fore end. However I do agree the early (Tybe B predecessor) is a beautiful rifle.

Either way - the Type A and Type B were fairly customisable. IE pretty much any combo of sight, bottom metal and trigger was available to order. I haven’t spent lot of time looking at Type As but I’ve seen Type Bs about 50:50 with military and DST, and most with tangent sights but many with leaf or (I’m not sure the name) “standard” rear sights, mostly with lever release floor plates and single action screws but some with military style. There were actually many sub models within Type B and Type A using numbering system. I think the Type B we picture is something like a 720?

The only original military rifle with the pair shaped handle was the 1903 Turk AFAIK - made by Oberndorf of course.

Do you know the production costs of a new 98 action? I’m just not sure if they would make a profit selling at GBP3000 - they’re notoriously time and machine hungry to make. The 98 actions on the market (eg Prechtl, Mayfair, GMA) start at least 3000 I believe, so Mauser would have to be cutting corners to get a whole rifle under that price. Don’t get me wrong a more affordable 98 would be a fantastic thing for the gun world and it would be the only new one I’d buy. But looking at the price of an Oberndorf sporter back in the day they too were a very expensive rifle.

Here are my Mauserwerkes. Mm410b 22LR, 4000 222, Tybe B 7x57

 

[VSS]

Like this one

Both of my rifles have the thumb cut-out like that.
Both Parker-Hale Safari Deluxe built on military mauser actions.
I love them!

 

[harrygrey382]

What’s the view on FN actions with a the finger slot cut out? Less desirable than the commercial actions?

Honestjohn you keep making me think about the Mauser actions despite my love of the husqvarna 1900s

All FN actions are good - it’s general consensus their build quality and metallurgy remained constant throughout the years and application. IE their military actions are have the same tolerance, metal composition and HT as their commercials. So an FN with thumb slot is a great action for a build (I really like the sidewall lettering “FAB. NAT D’ARMES de GUERRE HERSTEL - BELGIQUE” - the commercial “Action Made By FN” is kind of lame).
The FN commercial is kind of the gold standard for newer scoped builds as it has the solid left rail (which is fairly irrelevant), is low scope ready and has good metallurgy and finishing. But it does (mostly) have the H breach as opposed to C ring, and in reality it’s more a flex than anything meaningful

 

[HonestJohn]

Awesome question and great topic you’ve started! I think if we were native German speakers - or maybe even French, Spanish or Portuguese we might find there are more legendary stories involving orignal Oberndorf sporters, but we’re lumped with the English ones so we get the Rigby tales. Although I do think due to the size ongoing (at the time of essentially unchecked hunting) British empire and the associated sporting aristocracy there are probably more stories of Brits at the time, who would be more likely to use a British supplied gun than German.

I LOVE original Oberndorf sporters (so much so that I built a Tribute), but I find the new Mauser sporter styling to be a bit too chunky and generic. If you had the money I’d suggest tracking down an original - it’ll appreciate better and will be a nicer rifle to own. Big caveat being the new one will be better with a scope.

Great post - you obviously have a passion for Oberndorfs, IMO the pinnacle of hunting rifles. I agree 100% with your opening sentence. Do you own the superb rifle you pictured?

According to “Mauser Heat Treat In Brief” by Nathaniel Myers, Oberndorf changed their heat treatment in 1933 from case hardening of a few specific areas (via pack hardening with bone charcoal) to through hardening of the entire receiver using an oil bath of DurFerrit, resulting in higher overall strength . His source of info is original Mauser documentation provided by Jon Speed, and I believe it’s correct. IE - receivers made after 1933 are considered a higher strength. However, this is broadly not that relevant, as it has been shown over and over that pre 1933 receivers are absolutely capable of holding 270win pressures (65k psi, as high as anything nowadays bar the new 7mm Back Country). I believe the switch from Waffenfabrik to MauserWerke was mid 1920s? While they used up their remaining stock of commercial actions.

It’s true the finishing was slightly higher in the earlier sporters. IE the rust bluing was only applied to the external surfaces (latter may have been hot tank blues?), and the running surfaces were polished in the white. Tolerances I’m not so sure there was such a difference - have you got examples? I have a slight preference for the later capped pistol grips, and the Type B’s subtle fore end. However I do agree the early (Tybe B predecessor) is a beautiful rifle.

Either way - the Type A and Type B were fairly customisable. IE pretty much any combo of sight, bottom metal and trigger was available to order. I haven’t spent lot of time looking at Type As but I’ve seen Type Bs about 50:50 with military and DST, and most with tangent sights but many with leaf or (I’m not sure the name) “standard” rear sights, mostly with lever release floor plates and single action screws but some with military style. There were actually many sub models within Type B and Type A using numbering system. I think the Type B we picture is something like a 720?

The only original military rifle with the pair shaped handle was the 1903 Turk AFAIK - made by Oberndorf of course.

Do you know the production costs of a new 98 action? I’m just not sure if they would make a profit selling at GBP3000 - they’re notoriously time and machine hungry to make. The 98 actions on the market (eg Prechtl, Mayfair, GMA) start at least 3000 I believe, so Mauser would have to be cutting corners to get a whole rifle under that price. Don’t get me wrong a more affordable 98 would be a fantastic thing for the gun world and it would be the only new one I’d buy. But looking at the price of an Oberndorf sporter back in the day they too were a very expensive rifle.

Here are my Mauserwerkes. Mm410b 22LR, 4000 222, Tybe B 7x57

I do own that rifle in question

 

[HonestJohn]

@harrygrey382 and due to my failing eyesight, it is for sale, but I doubt anyone will want to be the separation fee (let’s just say at least £4,500) and I’d need a legal document signed it will never be drilled and tapped for scope mounts

 

[Rsl]

I will always consider the Brno VZ 24 as one of the best Mauser actions ever manufactured!!

 

[harrygrey382]

@harrygrey382 and due to my failing eyesight, it is for sale, but I doubt anyone will want to be the separation fee (let’s just say at least £4,500) and I’d need a legal document signed it will never be drilled and tapped for scope mounts

Ah damn - I feel for you. But yes good on you for insisting there is never any D&Ting going on… although if they’re going to pay that much (which I would say is fair - it’d be worth more than that here) I’d have thought they’d know not to mess with it!

I’m glad I’m in another country or I’d be losing sleep trying to work out how to come up with 4500 pounds!

 

[cjm1066]

Who makes the Purdey B/A, Mayfair engineering perhaps, is it a good action?

 

[HonestJohn]

I will always consider the Brno VZ 24 as one of the best Mauser actions ever manufactured!!

They are, amongst many others, but it’s a special few in that group. The very late vz24’s made for commercial sales were horrid junk, beware!!!

 

[HonestJohn]

Who makes the Purdey B/A, Mayfair engineering perhaps, is it a good action?

Very, but I think near £10k now. Silly money when a ‘good’ Mauser donor will do fine or better!!

If you know what to look for, holts sealed bud can land you a great donor for £100-£200

Also, Mayfair etc are all DSB, having mounts machined into them is several thousand more in today’s crazy world.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

Very, but I think near £10k now. Silly money when a ‘good’ Mauser donor will do fine or better!!

If you know what to look for, holts sealed bud can land you a great donor for £100-£200

Also, Mayfair etc are all DSB, having mounts machined into them is several thousand more in today’s crazy world.

£10k....and the rest.....I think it is the 'comparative' price among its contemporaries that makes the Rigby HS look reasonably priced - but I would still like to own one (or a Mauser Standard Expert) within the blink of an eye.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

@harrygrey382 and @HonestJohn

Romance and tradition aside and assuming that 100% reliability in loading/extracting isn't going to mean the difference between life and death (dangerous game hunting) is the Mauser action the best all-round hunting action for the money??

I think back to that fantastic rifle that @Ronin made for Peter Hucheson built around the Borden Alpine action with the Lothar Walther barrel and the Jewell trigger wrapped in that stunning stock made by Gary Canes.........And I still think that might be the best way to spend my savings?

 

[Martiniblack577]

Simple solution: buy a Portuguese Mauser or similar that spent its life in the armoury and - if you must - stick a fancy pants walnut stick on it whilst having the internals fettled which I’ve personally never found wanting. Job done and thousands saved

 

[HonestJohn]

@harrygrey382 and @HonestJohn

Romance and tradition aside and assuming that 100% reliability in loading/extracting isn't going to mean the difference between life and death (dangerous game hunting) is the Mauser action the best all-round hunting action for the money??

I think back to that fantastic rifle that @Ronin made for Peter Hucheson built around the Borden Alpine action with the Lothar Walther barrel and the Jewell trigger wrapped in that stunning stock made by Gary Canes.........And I still think that might be the best way to spend my savings?

I didn’t really like that rifle, personally. But, I don’t want to go into details as to why.

Do have a look at what Joel Dorleac has on his shelf. That’s a man who knows how to build a rifle! And his almost as new 2nd hand offerings of his own builds, literally can be like new, at great prices. But! They don’t stick around long, for a reason!

 

[HonestJohn]

Simple solution: buy a Portuguese Mauser or similar that spent its life in the armoury and - if you must - stick a fancy pants walnut stick on it whilst having the internals fettled which I’ve personally never found wanting. Job done and thousands saved

Peruvian surely

 

[Keith Edmunds]

I didn’t really like that rifle, personally. But, I don’t want to go into details as to why.

Do have a look at what Joel Dorleac has on his shelf. That’s a man who knows how to build a rifle! And his almost as new 2nd hand offerings of his own builds, literally can be like new, at great prices. But! They don’t stick around long, for a reason!

'96 are interesting too

96' Mauser Licht Luxus Pirschbüchse | DORLEAC & DORLEAC

www.dorleac-dorleac.com