post the whole of the wording please.
Night shooting deer under CL55 - Police Notifications
- Thread starter Firefly
- Start date
big ears
Well-Known Member
Here you go
“As with daytime stalking, a suitable dog should be available to assist with carcass location and recovery if necessary.
There are a number of organisations across the country that provide dog tracking services to stalkers, if you don't have immediate access to a dog.
Consider familiarising yourself with your nearest representative.”
What this is saying is that knowing of a tracking service is enough and that knowing your nearest one is better.
It does NOT say “you must have one with you at all times”
Agreed. Never said you had to have one with you at all times.
I was merely saying the best practice guidance is now a legal requirement.
Where does it say you will be taken Infront of the Judge and hung for high treason
big ears
Well-Known Member
It’s a guideline. By definition it’s not a law.
Laws have to be passed by parliament.
The punishment would likely be a fine, probably revocation. Who's testing this then?
Legally, it's probably no different to not following the conditions of your FAC. Like having a mentored condition and being out without your mentor, or having a rifle listed for fox only and using it on deer.
It's sneakery. CL55 is the new night licence. Shooting without it, or in breach of its conditions, is illegal. They have put into the conditions of cl55, that you MUST follow that guidance.
Therefore... It is now a legal requirement to follow the guidance in order to be in compliance with the legally binding cl55.
big ears
Well-Known Member
Apart from this is governed by the firearms act which went through parliament and is LAW
The CL55 is a licences issued under conditions (one if which is the best practice guidelines) and therefore not a LAW
How do you legally shoot deer after legal hours?
big ears
Well-Known Member
Shooting deer at night unless under licence contravenes the deer act. That’s been know for a long time.
I ask you to read what it says in the best practice again about dogs. I posted it a few minutes ago.
It says as long as you know where a tracking dog is should you need it you are fine.
I do think you are winding yourself up over nothing. It’s up to us all how we interpret the guidance and the terms of the licence. It is certainly not criminal not to follow the DI best practice. If it were everyone who head or neck shoot’s would be breaking the law.
big ears
Well-Known Member
Under licence.
So by your logic the terms of the general licenses, such as you must consider alternative, non-lethal methods, aren’t a legal requirement and I can (legally) shoot corvids just because I feel like it?
Primary legislation (that passed by parliament and which you call LAW) says you can’t shoot deer at night. However, that primary legislation also allows for a minister to grant licenses to allow people to shoot deer at night.
That’s what this is. The minister is then entitled to place conditions on that license, which must be followed if the user wants to have the protection of that license (to do what is otherwise illegal under the primary legislation, i.e. shoot deer at a time that’s otherwise illegal).
One of those conditions is that you follow the DI best practice. A failure to do that will be a breach of the license, which will either be treated as meaning you’re night shooting without the cover of the license (an offence) or you’re covered but have breached it (likely an offence as well).
If shooting within normal hours, in season etc, you don’t need a license and can shoot the deer as of right (usual rules about permissions apply) so you can ignore the DI best practice as your shooting isn’t conditional on following it.
And yes, that appears to say that of you can get someone with a dog to help, that’s enough so I’m not disagreeing on that point, only that following best practice is not an option of you want to use this license
I'm aware of what it says, I believe I posted it a page or two ago. I'm not specifically arguing dogs. I'm fully aware that to have the number of one will suffice.
In answer to your question on head and neck shots, I'm afraid that under the new CL55 conditions, it's not allowed.
And breaking the terms of that license renders your shooting ... In breach of the deer act... Which is against the law.
I'm not trying to be awkward and argue the toss because I wrote cl55 and I'm defending my position.
I'm really just pointing out, which a lot of people seem to have missed, best practise guidance is now actually a legal requirement when shooting under CL55.
Hopefully that will cause a few people to read the best practise and ensure they are compliant so that nobody falls foul of any issues.
big ears
Well-Known Member
Not disagreeing with that. This all came about because one member was insisting you must have a dog to shoot under licence.
No, the BDS doesn't own the DI
The BDS is just one of the many organisations that are involved in the Deer Initiative Partnership.
big ears
Well-Known Member
I agree we are all grown ups (hopefully) and if we choose to use the licence we are doing so how we interpret the guidelines. The DI guidelines are worded with some latitude and we all need to be careful that things like stated earlier “you must have a dog” are not accepted.
The licence for me will be helpful as it gives me an extra hour before and after as I have no intention of going out all night. Some might.
To that end the conditions of the licence affect different people different ways.
It’s when people become rigid in their thinking problems arise.
But it is still only "guidance", not compulsion.
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