Anti drone shotgun ammo.
- Thread starter Triggermortis
- Start date
Polar Lynx
Well-Known Member
NORMA offers AD-LER anti drone shotgun cartridges. 34 gr, tungsten. Effective: up to 100 m.
Were magnum lead wildfowling loads already banned a few decades ago? (In England at least
)Using shotgun as drone defence in military operations is really last line of defence, with not so much chances to be effective.
Yes, there are a lot of videos from Ukraine, how solders are successfully shooting down drones even with AKs. In most cases, they are successful when engaging slow drones, hovering over trenches.
But modern FPV drones are so fast, that even the best skeet shooters would have problems firing more than one shot at them, before being hit.
Electronic counter measures can be successful, but only against radio-controlled models.
Models controlled by fibre optics cable are much more resistant to counter measures and they are causing havoc among solders and materiel on both sides in Ukraine war.
So, if I would be there, I would also carry some kind of last line shotgun defence, but in reality, it would more or less just give me some confidence, that I have something to relay on, without any real chance to defend myself from FPV suicide drone attack.
On the other side, if you have an annoying neighbour, who is spying on your wife at your garden, then yes, this will for sure work, but your local police will probably disagree about your choice of neighbour-to-neighbour relations.
Yes, there are a lot of videos from Ukraine, how solders are successfully shooting down drones even with AKs. In most cases, they are successful when engaging slow drones, hovering over trenches.
But modern FPV drones are so fast, that even the best skeet shooters would have problems firing more than one shot at them, before being hit.
Electronic counter measures can be successful, but only against radio-controlled models.
Models controlled by fibre optics cable are much more resistant to counter measures and they are causing havoc among solders and materiel on both sides in Ukraine war.
So, if I would be there, I would also carry some kind of last line shotgun defence, but in reality, it would more or less just give me some confidence, that I have something to relay on, without any real chance to defend myself from FPV suicide drone attack.
On the other side, if you have an annoying neighbour, who is spying on your wife at your garden, then yes, this will for sure work, but your local police will probably disagree about your choice of neighbour-to-neighbour relations.
C-UAV shotgun munitions are low hanging fruit, from an R&D perspective, and have a very low barrier to market, both in cost and ballistics knowledge. As a result, there's a load of VC funding being thrown at TRL1-3 products which are eventually found to be completely useless. At the moment, all offerings out there are at best morale boosters for the poor sods on the front line and at worst give operators a false sense of security, resulting in increased injury or death (never stand your ground with an incoming UAV). Shooting down a dynamic UAV going 20 metres per second is very difficult, and represents a significant training burden for non-SF units. A high capacity shotgun, firing a couple of shots per second will let an operator engage the typical weaponised UAV threat for about 3 seconds, or across 60 metres of its trajectory. There won't be time to reload, and I highly doubt most units would be issued more than one shotgun per section. As we've all come to observe, a significant proportion of the shots will miss behind!
Forget engaging a rapidly moving target at 100 metres (the world record for the longest clay pigeon shot is 120 metres, by George Digweed). It is more likely that engagement will start at 80 metres. At 20 metres it would be fair to expect operators to be taking cover. In short, I don't think there is a great deal of value in issuing a weapon system to shoot down the 'Goldilocks' version of a UAV threat - i.e., not too small and not too fast (in fact preferably static) - when rifle volley fire as a section is likely to be just as effective against that threat (particularly when issued with specialised rifle ammunition, which does actually work).
Shotguns aren't even a realistic option in civil-infrastructure defence, because no prison service, constabulary, local government or domestic military installation is going to let people run around with shotguns within a tactical bound of some poor sod walking their labradoodle.
Forget engaging a rapidly moving target at 100 metres (the world record for the longest clay pigeon shot is 120 metres, by George Digweed). It is more likely that engagement will start at 80 metres. At 20 metres it would be fair to expect operators to be taking cover. In short, I don't think there is a great deal of value in issuing a weapon system to shoot down the 'Goldilocks' version of a UAV threat - i.e., not too small and not too fast (in fact preferably static) - when rifle volley fire as a section is likely to be just as effective against that threat (particularly when issued with specialised rifle ammunition, which does actually work).
Shotguns aren't even a realistic option in civil-infrastructure defence, because no prison service, constabulary, local government or domestic military installation is going to let people run around with shotguns within a tactical bound of some poor sod walking their labradoodle.
I’m not sure if it represents exactly the situation you mentioned (fast fpv drones) but not surprisingly there has been some considerable non-involved civilians (I mean not in Ukraine) YouTube videos carrying out anti drone tests with various anti drone ammunition.
One I saw took about a day for an experienced champion ipsc/competition clay shooter to be able to hit a drone multiple times (but yes not every time), in this test they were staggered at the start how difficult it was BUT nailed it after some familiarisation.
Can’t remember what ammunition they were using by the nylon twine in this ammunition expands the pattern to about 15” and uses the twine to take out the drone
Here’s the link
Worth a look
I wouldn’t say it’s impossible to learn how to shoot down drones with dedicated ammunition it’s just not the same as shooting clays, based upon what I have seen. The question is more about would the various governments invest in training their military to shoot down drones with shotguns or will they rely on teh £1m a pop ground/maritime defence missiles.
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