Just 1 Wolf
- Thread starter bobo
- Start date
I hope he gets the compensation soon, but as you say that won't cover the vets bill.I see there is plenty of room for green spots in UK.
We do have problems regarding the wolves, but they are not overwhelming (some farmers may disagree on that). If we compare the number of livestock killed by wolves to the wolf population the worst problems are actually where the wolf population is thin.
Jørgen who lost the 6 sheep last week is now waiting for compensation, paid out after DNA sample confirms it was a wolf. He will only get compensation for the killed sheep. The vet bill is his own, and those vets take good payment for their trade (I know because I used to be married to one).
Last year at the town of Bække a sheep farmer lost 35 sheep to a single wolf during 1 night, but cases like this is luckily seldom, so much for killing only the weak and what they eat.
The wolf here is not reintroduced, but came back by itself, and I don’t say we should kill them all, but a general system of regulation, like they have in Sweden, would make good sense, and reintroduce the fear of humans.
At the place “Klosterheden” they have a pack of 10 wolves, in an area with a lot of red deer, and therefor a lot of hunting, many driven hunts a year including Royal family driven hunts. Somehow, the wolves in that area have learned to fear of humans.
If there where a system of regulating the wolf population like they have in Sweden I think they would become fearful of humans, and that way solve most of our wolf problems.
Where I live, we have an 8-wolf pack, and they don’t really have fear of humans, maybe because this area don’t get hunted so intensive as “Klosterheden”. We se attacks on livestock regularly, but so far never from the pack, but rather individuals.
I think there will have to be some sort of control system brought in for problem wolves here and the government has said they will do that.
There were some interesting statistics a few years ago (2015) that showed that many of the attacks on sheep at that time were proven with DNA to be dog attacks. There was also DNA evidence from 11 attacks in southern Jutland that were proved to be a Golden Jackal. We don't seem to hear much about them.
jthyttin
Well-Known Member
You seem quite self-centered. Basically the only thing he did wrong was jeopardize YOUR hunting...
While you're in Denmark, in Swedish kingdom (including Finland) in the 1500s there was a prominent figure in teology, legislation and so on, Olaus Petri, who wrote a set of informal "instructions for judges". They're still printed in Finnish (and maybe Swedish) legal books as foreword / reference. One of the most known is roughly translated:
EDIT: (typo in above, neither -> either)
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I disagree. It doesn't just affect me it potentially affects the way Danes look at all hunters, but why shouldn't I be personally annoyed that he broke the law and adversely affected the way some people think of me?
He was the one being self-centered. He had no reason to shoot the wolf. if he wanted it to move on, he could have just chased it off by firing into the air or ground (safely) with a shotgun. He wasn't a livestock farmer so he wasn't doing it to protect his flock. He did it for his own selfish reasons.
I have a lot of sympathy for the sheep farmers that lose their animals to wolf attacks and would definitely support control of problem wolves.
just look at what Bobo said earlier in the thread, people blame hunters for the wolves that can't be found. Saying we have shot them. There is no evidence of this but we get the blame anyway.
You are welcome to your opinion but I am not being self-centered. I want hunting to continue for everyone involved, without the interference of antis that is so prevalent in other countries.
Mountain Bug
Well-Known Member
" What is not just and reasonable can neither be a law"
Never heard this before but I couldn't have said it any better.
Our (Colorado) reintroduction is unjust, unreasonable and cruel. The 51% of mostly urban dwellers won the vote while 49% of mostly rural dwellers, the ones with skin in the game, took it in the jacksie.
If a wolf were to attack one of our horses, we would not be able kill that wolf unless done while attacking and we had photo/video evidence of the attack as proof.Even then we could be subject to $100k in fines, possible jail time and retribution from the wolf lovers. If we were found to be in the right, our compensation would be limited to their determined loss of value not the cost of an additional 20-25 years of care for a valueless and likely un-rideable horse and probable retribution from the wolf lovers. That is only if they haven't run out of money.
It was reported locally that Colorado parks and wildlife has recently paid out $340k of their $350k budget to compensate just two cattle ranchers. Once again, this is just for monetary losses not the mental and physical losses associated.
My opinion is... Fcuk 'Em. It is gone too far now for me to be worried about appearances.
Scott
Never heard this before but I couldn't have said it any better.
Our (Colorado) reintroduction is unjust, unreasonable and cruel. The 51% of mostly urban dwellers won the vote while 49% of mostly rural dwellers, the ones with skin in the game, took it in the jacksie.
If a wolf were to attack one of our horses, we would not be able kill that wolf unless done while attacking and we had photo/video evidence of the attack as proof.Even then we could be subject to $100k in fines, possible jail time and retribution from the wolf lovers. If we were found to be in the right, our compensation would be limited to their determined loss of value not the cost of an additional 20-25 years of care for a valueless and likely un-rideable horse and probable retribution from the wolf lovers. That is only if they haven't run out of money.
It was reported locally that Colorado parks and wildlife has recently paid out $340k of their $350k budget to compensate just two cattle ranchers. Once again, this is just for monetary losses not the mental and physical losses associated.
My opinion is... Fcuk 'Em. It is gone too far now for me to be worried about appearances.
Scott
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jthyttin
Well-Known Member
Digged a bit for better and more comprehensive English article / translation of the above code.
jarkkotontti.net
The translated rule set (by article writer with help from others) is in the end of article. Here's the rule I mentioned:
Olaus Petri And The Rules For Judges. Associations 1/2000. - Jarkko Tontti
English translation of Olaus Petri's Rules for judges
jarkkotontti.net
The translated rule set (by article writer with help from others) is in the end of article. Here's the rule I mentioned:
Torben, who where so ”lucky” only to loose 6 sheep less than 2 weeks ago had another visit from, at least one, wolf last night.
This morning 9 dead sheep, and still no number of wounded sheep, the vet is on the way. He is now contemplating giving up, but not an easy decision to give up on his family farm, trough 5 generations
.
Over the last 2 years he now lost 110 sheep including the 9 from this morning, he has special fences, special dogs, and special strobe lights, special frequency noisemakers, but the wolves just don’t know they are supposed to be afraid of those things.
The dogs have a certain effect, but they are very expensive to keep, and aggressive towards people who get close to the sheep, so dogwalkers and nature lovers complain about them.
On the other hand, several incidents where wolves have come very close to dogwalkers (2 meters) have led to them being afraid of the wolves too. culminating 16. January where a dog was attacked and badly injured in front of the owner, who luckily managed to chase the wolf away, before the dog was killed.
Hope the law opens for a regulation of the wolves soon, but as far I hear it is the EU who forbids us to make such a law here in Denmark.
You have water around your island as a natural barrier, don’t fall for the people who wants to “rewild” wolves in UK, they are not shy of humans and don’t just kill what they need to live.
This morning 9 dead sheep, and still no number of wounded sheep, the vet is on the way. He is now contemplating giving up, but not an easy decision to give up on his family farm, trough 5 generations
.Over the last 2 years he now lost 110 sheep including the 9 from this morning, he has special fences, special dogs, and special strobe lights, special frequency noisemakers, but the wolves just don’t know they are supposed to be afraid of those things.
The dogs have a certain effect, but they are very expensive to keep, and aggressive towards people who get close to the sheep, so dogwalkers and nature lovers complain about them.
On the other hand, several incidents where wolves have come very close to dogwalkers (2 meters) have led to them being afraid of the wolves too. culminating 16. January where a dog was attacked and badly injured in front of the owner, who luckily managed to chase the wolf away, before the dog was killed.
Hope the law opens for a regulation of the wolves soon, but as far I hear it is the EU who forbids us to make such a law here in Denmark.
You have water around your island as a natural barrier, don’t fall for the people who wants to “rewild” wolves in UK, they are not shy of humans and don’t just kill what they need to live.
Sorry to hear about your friend's sheep. I think the government will have to do something about controlling some of the wolves when they become a problem. I just saw this morning that a third of sheep farmers near Oksbøl have lost sheep.Torben, who where so ”lucky” only to loose 6 sheep less than 2 weeks ago had another visit from, at least one, wolf last night.
This morning 9 dead sheep, and still no number of wounded sheep, the vet is on the way. He is now contemplating giving up, but not an easy decision to give up on his family farm, trough 5 generations
Over the last 2 years he now lost 110 sheep including the 9 from this morning, he has special fences, special dogs, and special strobe lights, special frequency noisemakers, but the wolves just don’t know they are supposed to be afraid of those things.
The dogs have a certain effect, but they are very expensive to keep, and aggressive towards people who get close to the sheep, so dogwalkers and nature lovers complain about them.
On the other hand, several incidents where wolves have come very close to dogwalkers (2 meters) have led to them being afraid of the wolves too. culminating 16. January where a dog was attacked and badly injured in front of the owner, who luckily managed to chase the wolf away, before the dog was killed.
Hope the law opens for a regulation of the wolves soon, but as far I hear it is the EU who forbids us to make such a law here in Denmark.
You have water around your island as a natural barrier, don’t fall for the people who wants to “rewild” wolves in UK, they are not shy of humans and don’t just kill what they need to live.
I was trying to find something on the incident with the dog you mentioned. I could only find something published on the 16 january, about a gravhund that was possibly attacked in December but the owner never actually saw the attack.
The press normally doesn’t bother to report about wolf attacks on livestock anymore. If they did it would be close to one incident every day. Another thing is there are not many farmers left anymore, the last ones have so few votes that no politicians take them serious anymore.
Only reason they brought some stories lately was because the victims where “mother sheep”, with innocent lamb in their bellies. Just look at how they write the stories, emphasis on the mothers and unborn lambs, good for click bait.
The dog is a labrador, and incident took place between “den genfundne bro” and Vestbirk. The dog is a hunting dog used for retrieving on duck and pheasant hunts, during season. Owner was on the bicycle and dog running beside, as the attack happened. The dog was badly injured, but the vet managed to save it, I don’t know if it will ever be able to come hunting and retrieving again.
Police treats it as a dog-to-dog attack, as the DNA sample was heavily contaminated by dog blood, the attacker could not be 100% identified as a wolf.
The owner is a hunter and know the difference between a wolf and dog very well, but that doesn’t count.
No matter what he does not get compensation, as vet bills are not compensated, only killed animals with 100% DNA proof can get compensation.
The farmers get compensation for the killed sheep, but not for the unborn lambs, even when they where just days away from coming out.
Only reason they brought some stories lately was because the victims where “mother sheep”, with innocent lamb in their bellies. Just look at how they write the stories, emphasis on the mothers and unborn lambs, good for click bait.
The dog is a labrador, and incident took place between “den genfundne bro” and Vestbirk. The dog is a hunting dog used for retrieving on duck and pheasant hunts, during season. Owner was on the bicycle and dog running beside, as the attack happened. The dog was badly injured, but the vet managed to save it, I don’t know if it will ever be able to come hunting and retrieving again.
Police treats it as a dog-to-dog attack, as the DNA sample was heavily contaminated by dog blood, the attacker could not be 100% identified as a wolf.
The owner is a hunter and know the difference between a wolf and dog very well, but that doesn’t count.
No matter what he does not get compensation, as vet bills are not compensated, only killed animals with 100% DNA proof can get compensation.
The farmers get compensation for the killed sheep, but not for the unborn lambs, even when they where just days away from coming out.
Tralle
Well-Known Member
Fellow dane here.
We have hunting grounds in Sweden, very close to where the first wolf pack reestablished itself in Sweden.
When I first saw them at age 16. I was part of a quite select group at that time.
I sometimes wonder how it would have been up there if I had just SSS, but I am (was at least) a good law abiding citizen.
When wolves are present in the area, all deer and moose seems to vanish, wether they move away or just become very stationary, I dont know. We do not see them, the woods become quiet.
We were also "lucky" enough to have lynx walk in on the area. That was a fu***** blood bath on the roe deer! When they say they can kill up to 90% of a roe deer population, they probably dont lie. We found many deer killed and just the thighs eaten, rest left to rot.
To me one of the single biggest issue with the wolves are the conflicts it creates between the urban and rural population.
There seem to be no understanding from the urban population to the problems the rural folk are living with when wolves are in the area.
I Sweden the antis were very violent about it. A friend of ours up there, among other things, had tyres cut at her home and got threaths on her phone. Just because she was in the media with, quite moderate tbh, opinions on the wolf.
It is so destructive for the coherence in society, and to me the wolves are simply not worth it and I wish we could be without them.
The only way i can see to raise the acceptance of wolves is to either restrict them to certain areas and make them "lawless" out of these.
With the Danish logic to fence in "nature" and starve wildlife in the name of biodiversity I cant se why not.
Second solution is to have a sensible license hunting on them so people feel they can "defend" themselves.
We have hunting grounds in Sweden, very close to where the first wolf pack reestablished itself in Sweden.
When I first saw them at age 16. I was part of a quite select group at that time.
I sometimes wonder how it would have been up there if I had just SSS, but I am (was at least) a good law abiding citizen.
When wolves are present in the area, all deer and moose seems to vanish, wether they move away or just become very stationary, I dont know. We do not see them, the woods become quiet.
We were also "lucky" enough to have lynx walk in on the area. That was a fu***** blood bath on the roe deer! When they say they can kill up to 90% of a roe deer population, they probably dont lie. We found many deer killed and just the thighs eaten, rest left to rot.
To me one of the single biggest issue with the wolves are the conflicts it creates between the urban and rural population.
There seem to be no understanding from the urban population to the problems the rural folk are living with when wolves are in the area.
I Sweden the antis were very violent about it. A friend of ours up there, among other things, had tyres cut at her home and got threaths on her phone. Just because she was in the media with, quite moderate tbh, opinions on the wolf.
It is so destructive for the coherence in society, and to me the wolves are simply not worth it and I wish we could be without them.
The only way i can see to raise the acceptance of wolves is to either restrict them to certain areas and make them "lawless" out of these.
With the Danish logic to fence in "nature" and starve wildlife in the name of biodiversity I cant se why not.
Second solution is to have a sensible license hunting on them so people feel they can "defend" themselves.
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Polar Lynx
Well-Known Member
There is to be a change in classification of wolfs in EU rather soon. From strictly protected to just protected. Out of this will follow that each EU member state will decide on their own a feasable number of wolf around. For Sweden there will be about a halving of present stock which is now about 400 official but probably 500.
Here in Sweden we have a so called # 28 rule for several years now and # 28 state that any hunter have the right to end a wolf's life if there is a threat to hunting dogs, live stock, people etc. Works rather well nowdays and quite a few wolfs are shot during normal hunting events. Shot one myself a few years ago, by the way. Was chasing a moose dog and would not 'listen' to a shot of warning.
Here in Sweden we have a so called # 28 rule for several years now and # 28 state that any hunter have the right to end a wolf's life if there is a threat to hunting dogs, live stock, people etc. Works rather well nowdays and quite a few wolfs are shot during normal hunting events. Shot one myself a few years ago, by the way. Was chasing a moose dog and would not 'listen' to a shot of warning.
Bavarianbrit
Well-Known Member
We had our yearly hunters meeting last night and we were introduced to a local voluntary wolfs beauftragter who monitors the population, he stated that there were at the end of the 2024 hunting year (April) 212 known wolf packs roaming in Germany with 180 of them being in Brandenburg and the neighbouring Sachsen Anhalt states. Bavaria have had only 10 packs documented he said this has to rise as the new born wolves get pushed out of the pack after growing to find their own way.
@Bavarianbrit
The wolf that attacked and bit a woman in Hamburg some time ago was, according to the news, captured alive.
Do you know what the authorities have done to that particular wolf?
The wolf that attacked and bit a woman in Hamburg some time ago was, according to the news, captured alive.
Do you know what the authorities have done to that particular wolf?
fixedwheel
Well-Known Member
Star attraction at the local petting zoo?
Bavarianbrit
Well-Known Member
After the incident with the injured woman, the wolf was sighted in St. Pauli, on Feldstrasse, and near the exhibition halls. Police officers then spotted it swimming in the Inner Alster Lake. They pulled it out of the water with a noose.
The animal initially resisted arrest at the construction site of the former "Alex" bar, but additional police officers with shields kept it at bay for over an hour.
The head of the urban hunting department at the Altona district office then took charge of the wolf, along with a veterinarian. The animal is doing well. It's agitated and needs to calm down, he told NDR radio on site.
Experts transported the wolf to the Klövensteen Wildlife Park that same evening in a wildlife transport vehicle. The animal is to be released back into the wild at a later date. However, when and where exactly that will happen is still unknown. "The wolf is really scared and stressed right now. We recommend releasing the wolf in a sparsely populated area," says Christian Erdmann from the Wildlife and Species Conservation Center. "Provided the veterinarian has given the animal a clean bill of health."
fixedwheel
Well-Known Member
There isn't a big enough facepalm emoji for this.
So German authorities have captured a large predator alive, which has proven attacked and injured a human.
Now they want to release this predator back out in Germany, where even in the most sparsely populated areas it is impossible for it to avoid encountering humans.
Maybe my logic is a bit old-fashioned, but personally I think it sounds like a "less intelligent" plan.
The German police are apparently more patient than I had thought.
I could well imagine that the wolf would have had at least one, but probably quite a few 9mm holes in it if it had resisted arrest from the Danish police.
Now they want to release this predator back out in Germany, where even in the most sparsely populated areas it is impossible for it to avoid encountering humans.
Maybe my logic is a bit old-fashioned, but personally I think it sounds like a "less intelligent" plan.
The German police are apparently more patient than I had thought.
I could well imagine that the wolf would have had at least one, but probably quite a few 9mm holes in it if it had resisted arrest from the Danish police.
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