Shotgun certificate revoked due to cancer

[PEM406]

Ok, this is a tricky one. I am furious about this as is everyone I know but looking for some advice. To me this sounds crazy but want to ask if there is a good way to approach this.

I’m looking for advice for a neighbour. Really a neighbour and not me.

They had a cancer diagnosis some time ago (not sure when). They just had their shotgun certificate revoked for not telling the local firearms team about this.

Long story shot (and I know I need to get details to the right people) but the firearms office came to visit on a “welfare” visit and she refused to tell them about the details of their condition. They are in the NHS and this is a private medical matter and they didn’t want to discuss with the officer. Their opinion was that the officer needed to check with their GP or cancer specialist to see if there was an issue and not make a judgement based on discussion they had during this visit.

Shortly after, armed firearms officers attended to confiscate their shotgun as their certificate had been revoked. Luckily their other half had a shotgun cert and already had the guns on their cert so nothing confiscated.

Partner asked BASC firearms team about this. Not interested.

I don’t have all the details but I can get them. I’ve shared the home office guidance docs with them and asked if they got formal notice of revocation along with reasons. If not, I’ve suggested asked for this in writing.

I want to make sure we tick all legal boxes to see if this is right or not. If not, I’m suggesting we write to Chief Constable, Police and Crime Commissioner and MP about this.

Does anyone have any advice on what I can do to help this person.

Please don’t beat up BASC or anyone else. If it turns out they really didn’t want to help, I’ll deal with that another way but really looking for advice.

The person in question is doubting if they should bother doing anything but they are so angry they don’t want to give up without a fight.

 

[JonR]

The police are trying to prevent your neighbour from killing themselves with a firearm.

 

[UpNorthMI]

Talk about kicking you when you are down. This seems totally unreasonable, I'm interested to hear further comments on this.

 

[PEM406]

The police are trying to prevent your neighbour from killing themselves with a firearm.

Yep, I wondered that as have seen that in other circumstances. Can’t share more on here but they are some years in and they are recovering. Surprised they didn’t talk to GP or Oncologist about this.

 

[PEM406]

Yep, I wondered that as have seen that in other circumstances. Can’t share more on here but they are some years in and they are recovering. Surprised they didn’t talk to GP or Oncologist about this.

Good point though. Thank you. Helps me try to understand what their position might be.

 

[JonR]

Yep, I wondered that as have seen that in other circumstances. Can’t share more on here but they are some years in and they are recovering. Surprised they didn’t talk to GP or Oncologist about this.

It's a horrible situation. I like to think that if I was sick, nothing would cheer me up more than being able to take the dogs out walked-up shooting, or sitting in a high seat for a few hours a week. I suppose if the firearms are pulled, however temporarily, the shooting community could come together to support them.

 

[enfieldspares]

Alas here in Leicester we.ve had one, maybe two where a terminal cancer patient went to a shooting ground to "try clay pigeon shooting" and used that access to a gun and cartridges to shoot themselves dead. One in front of a young lad trapping for them. The late Mike Scott of Scotarms also had all his authorities revoked. RFD s1 and Home Office s5 after a conversation had when he was in hospital. The terrible thing is of course that people will maybe now not report ill health to their GP for fear of a cancer diagnosis and then revocation of their SGC or FAC.

BBC News - Man shot dead at Leicestershire gun club

news.bbc.co.uk

 

[scoby3030]

Sorry to read about your neighbour and their situation. A friend of mine was diagnosed with and ultimately passed away from Cancer.
He told his Feo quite soon after diagnosis and had his shotguns until he passed, I took him out on his last couple of shoot days a couple of weeks before he died.
His Firearms department didn't have any problems with him having his guns , he reckoned that was because he told them as soon as possible after diagnosis, this was with Gmp.
Good luck with whichever route you choose to go.

 

[PEM406]

Alas here in Leicester we.ve had one, maybe two where a terminal cancer patient went to a shooting ground to "try clay pigeon shooting" and used that access to a gun and cartridges to shoot themselves dead. One in front of a young lad trapping for them. The late Mike Scott of Scotarms also had all his authorities revoked. RFD s1 and Home Office s5 after a conversation had when he was in hospital. The terrible thing is of course that people will maybe now not report ill health to their GP for fear of a cancer diagnosis and then revocation of their SGC or FAC.

To @JonR’s point. So sorry to hear that and especially for the lad trapping.

Agree about the last concern. It’s actually the opposite of what should happen.

 

[PEM406]

Sorry to read about your neighbour and their situation. A friend of mine was diagnosed with and ultimately passed away from Cancer.
He told his Feo quite soon after diagnosis and had his shotguns until he passed, I took him out on his last couple of shoot days a couple of weeks before he died.
His Firearms department didn't have any problems with him having his guns , he reckoned that was because he told them as soon as possible after diagnosis, this was with Gmp.
Good luck with whichever route you choose to go.

Sorry to hear about your friend. I am wondering if the issue is they didn’t know they should have told them and therefore didn’t. Feels punitive though.

 

[PEM406]

Is there any kind of legal advice they could get on this, does anyone know? I’ve had great experience with BASC till now so am tempted to try again as I assume they didn’t have full picture. Any other options?

 

[JonR]

Is there any kind of legal advice they could get on this, does anyone know? I’ve had great experience with BASC till now so am tempted to try again as I assume they didn’t have full picture. Any other options?

Have they opened up a dialogue with the Police? Perhaps the Chief Constable, as a last resort?

 

[scoby3030]

Sorry to hear about your friend. I am wondering if the issue is they didn’t know they should have told them and therefore didn’t. Feels punitive though.

Perhaps that is a reason they could use as a sort of appeal to the feo etc. No idea if it would work. I'm sure it mentions on a Fac or on application/renewal about letting them know of a change in circumstances including medical changes.

S

 

[JonR]

I think that the firearms marker on your medical records requires medical practitioners to inform the police of such diagnoses,

 

[scoby3030]

I think that the firearms marker on your medical records requires medical practitioners to inform the police of such diagnoses,

A bit like you get a speeding ticket, they know but ultimately want you to tell them.
Sort of an honesty check, maybe.

S

 

[JonR]

A bit like you get a speeding ticket, they know but ultimately want you to tell them.
Sort of an honesty check, maybe.

S

I think this sort of 'f'd if you do, f'd if you don't' shituation can come across as cruel, but the intention of their internal policies is likely well-intentioned. Perhaps selfishly, but I think the fewer people vulnerable to self-harm with a firearm the better it is for the longer term health of the shooting community.

 

[PEM406]

Perhaps that is a reason they could use as a sort of appeal to the feo etc. No idea if it would work. I'm sure it mentions on a Fac or on application/renewal about letting them know of a change in circumstances including medical changes.

Thanks. I also wondered that but I honestly would not have thought of that for a shotgun cert or cancer. I could understand for FAC or for depression, etc. although per other posts, that could be the issue.

If that’s the issue then I’m hoping that getting a medical confirmation of no risk might be the route.

 

[PEM406]

Have they opened up a dialogue with the Police? Perhaps the Chief Constable, as a last resort?

Not yet but I’m suggesting we get the details and then go to Chief Constable, MO and P&C Commissioner.

 

[scoby3030]

Thanks. I also wondered that but I honestly would not have thought of that for a shotgun cert or cancer. I could understand for FAC or for depression, etc. although per other posts, that could be the issue.

If that’s the issue then I’m hoping that getting a medical confirmation of no risk might be the route.

All the best for your neighbour

 

[PEM406]

All the best for your neighbour

Thanks.