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I suspect they are not wild.
I suspect they are not wild.
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DSC2 - Wild vs. Park Debate
- Thread starter rarms
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digger9523
Well-Known Member
sharpie my old skip , if you have done level 1 and put 12 deer into the food chain you should know how to eviscerate a carcass , i also see you consider you are approaching the level required for level 2 , so what do you need to know about fieldcraft , stalking , and the other fundamentals required for level 2 ? If you feel you need further schooling Jelen are offering a pre level 2 . Without wanting to be rude i dont consider 20 deer to be enough before doing level 2 , i had been stalking about 20 years before doing level 1 , some years taking about 100 head of deer and i still have things to learn as i dont consider myself an expert . If you think your ready do it , if you dont dont do it , but dont ask a load of duff questions mate . Your no expert , who is
Not sure what your point is.
Are you an AW ? If so, who are you registered with ?
I don't understand what you mean by "dont ask a load of duff questions mate . Your no expert , who is"
I've never asked any stupid questions here, nor claimed to be an expert, AFAIK.
You may have your own opinion re. number of deer pre DSC2, but thats simply your own prejudice.
Jelen certainly won't care if a registrant has even seen a deer, nevermind killed one.
If you haven't understood my cynicism re. JDS "DSC2 in only 2 Days" then I pity you. Focus on the original post and vent your spleen there.
Sharpie,
Is it me or do you have a bit of a problem with Jelen? From my experience - and indeed from the OP, it is extremely clear that Jelen do care and look to have their students best interests at heart - and I should know. Mike is just wanting to ensure people are ready for this particular method of attaining a DSCL2.
As to duff questions, if you are asking about where AW's are registered and what the relevance of more than one is, I suggest you need to read the basic requirements of DSCL2. Once you have done that and as Trouble recommends shot a couple more deer with the DSCL2 criteria in mind such that you understand the IPC's, then perhaps you may understand the point more fully. You may then have pity on yourself for your cynicism that can only be borne of ignorance - and indeed vent your sanctimonious spleen elsewhere.
6pointer
Well-Known Member
ETR I Think it is very important that people ask questions we are dealing with wild deer here and the promise of 4 in two days does seem a bit suspect and shooting deer in a deer park is not fulfilling all the pc,s on the portfolio. This is what forums are for. Sharpie ask away your only asking what others are frightened to ask in case people like Trouble and ETR try and make them look foolish.
Ah Davie. I've no intent to stop questions - and it is for the OP to answer them, not me. I'm also not trying to make anyone appear foolish - there are many who do not need any help whatsoever on that front. I'm not sure I hold with 'suspect' though - I would hope there are plenty of professional stalkers who would reckon on a client getting on a deer almost every stalk - thereafter it's down to the client. From my perspective, all that is being offered here is the opportunity to have all the things required in one place - for something that is notoriously difficult to arrange normally - with some degree of certainty of achieving the aim if you're up to the challenge. Those who are suspicious will probably not take advantage of the offer made - I think that's called 'free market forces'? - but it does not detract from the fact that Jelen have put together a thoughtful package to deal woith a problem. Like any other product, it will not be for everyone (me included), but that doesn't mean we need to lambast it for the sake of it because of cynicism or suspicion. Do you log onto supermarket forums and voice your suspicion of a latest price cut - or do the same to a car manufacturer because you are cynical about the claims they may make about a new model? Really?
jamross65
Well-Known Member
I know at leat 3 people who obtained their Level 2 having shot less than a dozen deer each, in fact two them are brothers brothers who got theirs having shot 3 deer each prior to obtaining level 2.
Hence the reason I have an issue with the whole thing...
Mr Lewis
Well-Known Member
Jelen,
I am guessing these are park deer is this correct?
Have the parks been approved by DMQ as being appropriate?
I.E.
"Within a deer park the deer must be able to behave normally for the sex, species and time of year. They must also be able to freely move around the park and thus require a complete re stalk if they move out of range or sight or are frightened and escape the original stalk."
Lets face it if it is a park its not really the same as wild deer is it and IMHO it just devalues the DMQ system
I am guessing these are park deer is this correct?
Have the parks been approved by DMQ as being appropriate?
I.E.
"Within a deer park the deer must be able to behave normally for the sex, species and time of year. They must also be able to freely move around the park and thus require a complete re stalk if they move out of range or sight or are frightened and escape the original stalk."
Lets face it if it is a park its not really the same as wild deer is it and IMHO it just devalues the DMQ system
JAYB
Super Moderator
ETR I don't think anyone is doing any lambasting here, I think that someone, sharpie, who has his level 1 is asking what he considers to be legitimate questions. Now it may be that his level of experience is not as high as some people consider it should be to take level 2, alternatively it may be perfectly suitable who knows? What I do think though is that he should be allowed to ask his questions without people telling him he should not ask "duff" questions. In fact I myself would like to know the answer to several of the questions asked. Surely the thing to do with people who appear to be trying to progress in our chosen pastime, by gaining entirely voluntary qualifications, is to encourage them and not point out their perceived ignorance, or advise them where to vent their sanctimonious spleen.
The thread title reads "Available Get your DSC2 in only two days! ", does this not imply that it is a done deal? It would seem that any ensuing confusion is dealt with by way of clarification in follow up posts very untidy at best. It is not entirely unreasonable to expect people to ask questions, and surely things such as, are they wild deer or park deer? Will the deer numbers be guaranteed? Is the only prospect of failure due to the candidates inability/lack of knowledge? are not unreasonable. So all in all I think it is best we help to answer these questions in as polite and helpful manner as possible, without the need to personalise the replies and go off at tangents.
John
The thread title reads "Available Get your DSC2 in only two days! ", does this not imply that it is a done deal? It would seem that any ensuing confusion is dealt with by way of clarification in follow up posts very untidy at best. It is not entirely unreasonable to expect people to ask questions, and surely things such as, are they wild deer or park deer? Will the deer numbers be guaranteed? Is the only prospect of failure due to the candidates inability/lack of knowledge? are not unreasonable. So all in all I think it is best we help to answer these questions in as polite and helpful manner as possible, without the need to personalise the replies and go off at tangents.
John
6pointer
Well-Known Member
ETR I do ask questions all the time some times it gets me into trouble because some don't like to answer. Deals at the local car garage can be a prime example were every thing seem a great deal till you look at the small print and work out were they are shafting you.This happens in every walk of life and shock horror even more so in the stalking fraternity.
Bavarianbrit
Well-Known Member
Jeez,
It seems Jelen GmbH will do anything for a buck (pun intended).
How about flogging us camo underwear & setting up a deer stalker dating service they have overlooked those possibilities so far.
Martin
It seems Jelen GmbH will do anything for a buck (pun intended).
How about flogging us camo underwear & setting up a deer stalker dating service they have overlooked those possibilities so far.
Martin
John,
I couldn't agree more and at no point have I brought into question the level of experience required. What I have done is is responded to a thread where the negative connotation of the request is not a fitting response. Ask open questions by all means, but don't pre-judge. The OP has asked people to contact him directly for more information - not state their particular view of events or of the opportunity or air their cynicism without the information to hand. I have no desire to become embroiled in this, but I feel that the negative connotation which has become a feature of threads like this needs on occasion to be responded to. I don't think it's unreasonable for someone who is considering completing a qualification doing a bit of research before going off half cocked, expressing their extreme cynicism and pitying those who do not understand it in open forum.
As to your question regarding the thread title, I state yet again that it is something to take up with the OP, rather than cause it to be the root of yet more tangential conjecture - is it not?
sikamalc
Administrator
As an AW I can tell you that you are allowed to take your 3 deer on an enclosed area, providing the deer have sufficient area to run away and behave in a normal manner.
DMQ are aware of all these areas and will more than likely not allow a pass on an area that is deemed unsuitable.
Any candidate that is thinking of applying for their Level 2 needs to make sure they are fully competent in stalking, field dressing, extraction, larder work and able to answer all the questions put to them by the AW.
Some may think that taking just 3 deer since they started stalking will give them a pass........ it wont, the assessor will more than likely not sign it off. If you have shot 12 deer its also possibly not enough to satisfy an assessor. All candidates should make sure they are fully competent before embarking on their Level 2, the onus is on you, not the AW.
My own personal opinion is that all 3 deer should be wild shot, and stalked. High seat shooting cannot be fully signed off as you did not stalk the deer. But the field dress, larder work etc can be, so you can do a partial sign off.
DMQ are aware of all these areas and will more than likely not allow a pass on an area that is deemed unsuitable.
Any candidate that is thinking of applying for their Level 2 needs to make sure they are fully competent in stalking, field dressing, extraction, larder work and able to answer all the questions put to them by the AW.
Some may think that taking just 3 deer since they started stalking will give them a pass........ it wont, the assessor will more than likely not sign it off. If you have shot 12 deer its also possibly not enough to satisfy an assessor. All candidates should make sure they are fully competent before embarking on their Level 2, the onus is on you, not the AW.
My own personal opinion is that all 3 deer should be wild shot, and stalked. High seat shooting cannot be fully signed off as you did not stalk the deer. But the field dress, larder work etc can be, so you can do a partial sign off.
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PointBlank
Well-Known Member
DMQ is a measure of competence and ability to follow "Best Practice" rather than "experience". I have a very good idea that a stalker who is fresh from training and mentoring is a lot more likely to follow "Best Practice" than someone who has been shooting deer for x number of years left to their own devices. In all fairness shooting a deer and getting it to the larder hygienically isn't rocket-science and that is what is being assessed as far as I am aware.
The experience comes after the training phase.
The experience comes after the training phase.
Bavarianbrit
Well-Known Member
"Oh yes" said the Chur***l dog.
It"s just whichever way you look Jelen seem to be chasing business, it feels a bit like the bangle/trinket sellers in India when you alight from a bus or train, they also just will not back off, i find it a bit of an OTT way to make a living.
martin
It"s just whichever way you look Jelen seem to be chasing business, it feels a bit like the bangle/trinket sellers in India when you alight from a bus or train, they also just will not back off, i find it a bit of an OTT way to make a living.
martin
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stalkinginengland
Well-Known Member
What Jelen are offering is totally legit. This does not mean that you will walk away with a DSC2. The assessment is candidate led. It is up to the candidate to prove competance. If they simply can not do the job they have no come back. They should not have entered into it in the first place. If a candidate is confident of his or her ability then this is an ideal way of makeing sure that they can gain it in a limited time scale. Nothing more. Jelen cant be held responsable for a candidates poor performance.
Regards
Mark
Regards
Mark
Wolverine
Well-Known Member
I have to agree with Trouble.
DSC2 is not a magic thing it is a basic qualification.
IMHO people should have plenty of deer shot under them before registering for it.
I know guys who haven't ever fired a rifle passing DSC1,moving onto DSC2 with a handful of deer shot and then doing the advanced deer management course,why??
They are paper chasers,fair enough if that floats your boat but before I take a candidate out I ask firstly how experienced they are,if not as Jelen state they do pre DSC2 training at cost,to get them up to the standard required.
I am always wary of DSC2 AWs promising Level2 in a set time and personally I feel it shouldn't be allowed however it is.
People have 3 years to complete,why the rush?
Just because its allowed doesn't make it the best way to fulfill individual cull records IMO
This is not some dark art but there is a standard to be acquired and attained which I feel can't be when someone has only shot a handful of deer.
The minimum standard in 2014 as far as I know in Scotland has been set at DSC1,why when no deer enter the food chain,DSC2 should be the minimum,there tin hat firmly in place awaiting incoming!
Anyone can pass DSC1,DSC2 requires time and a bit of dedication
DSC2 is not a magic thing it is a basic qualification.
IMHO people should have plenty of deer shot under them before registering for it.
I know guys who haven't ever fired a rifle passing DSC1,moving onto DSC2 with a handful of deer shot and then doing the advanced deer management course,why??
They are paper chasers,fair enough if that floats your boat but before I take a candidate out I ask firstly how experienced they are,if not as Jelen state they do pre DSC2 training at cost,to get them up to the standard required.
I am always wary of DSC2 AWs promising Level2 in a set time and personally I feel it shouldn't be allowed however it is.
People have 3 years to complete,why the rush?
Just because its allowed doesn't make it the best way to fulfill individual cull records IMO
This is not some dark art but there is a standard to be acquired and attained which I feel can't be when someone has only shot a handful of deer.
The minimum standard in 2014 as far as I know in Scotland has been set at DSC1,why when no deer enter the food chain,DSC2 should be the minimum,there tin hat firmly in place awaiting incoming!
Anyone can pass DSC1,DSC2 requires time and a bit of dedication
Cut+Squirt
Well-Known Member
Agreed . . . . . its hardly the same if they are lined up waiting to be shot in a bloody deer park is it. Cost me a lot of time and effort to get my DSC L2, doing it properly with wild deer not fed out of a bucket.
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