Where is it safe to shoot a 222 but not a 243?????

[Chris p Bacon]

HI a strange question but one that is very real for us in Cheshire.
Cheshire firearms LD will not let shooters use 243 for fox as it is unsafe but reccomend 222 or 223?
However with my open deer condition I can shoot deer in the county with both 243 and 308......
I would like some one to show me where it is safe to shoot 222 but not 243.
The result of this is many shooters who hold 243 for deer need to buy another rifle for fox.
Having said this there are many people who live in Cheshire cleared for shooting fox with 243.

Thats it rant over.........
There is a positive I love my 222!

 

[re'M'ington]

Well it is plainly rubbish,and if you were a SACS member they would have that sorted with one phonecall!

 

[Edchef]

What a difference a county border makes!
I have been given a completely different impression here in Shropshire - I'll let you know when my FAC drops through the letterbox - my FLO may well be reading this!

 

[Tackleberry270]

Had all my deer rifles up to .308 open for fox with no restrictions in Surrey.

 

[Dalua]

Where is it safe to shoot a 222 but not a 243?????

In a less-than-well-informed FEO's mind.

Seriously, though, it would be worth writing to the FEO to exlplain clearly and logically why they should allow safely and lawfully you to shoot foxes with the .243 you already own.

If they decline without good reason (I can't think of any of the top of my head), write to the FLD manager. If that doesn't work, perhaps try the CC.

 

[Tim1]

HI a strange question but one that is very real for us in Cheshire.
Cheshire firearms LD will not let shooters use 243 for fox as it is unsafe but reccomend 222 or 223?
However with my open deer condition I can shoot deer in the county with both 243 and 308......
I would like some one to show me where it is safe to shoot 222 but not 243.
The result of this is many shooters who hold 243 for deer need to buy another rifle for fox.
Having said this there are many people who live in Cheshire cleared for shooting fox with 243.

Thats it rant over.........
There is a positive I love my 222!

Ranger,

I know for a fact that Cheshire will condition up to and including 6.5mm for fox. You just need to put your case forward in the correct manner. Check the wording in the Guidance Note.

Good luck,

Tim

 

[Chris p Bacon]

ITS THE FLD WHO WILL NOT PASS 243 for FOX even for a professional full time pest controller who has 243 for deer........
Others have got 243 for fox but general from a few years ago

 

[Si]

I'll let you know when my FAC drops through the letterbox - my FLO may well be reading this!

I think all Feo's should read this, they might learn a thing or two

 

[LEE243]

Ranger
I would deffo challenge this i got my 243 for fox as the pimary quarry and deer as secondary
It is clear in the firearms act that a 243/6.5 (swede) can be used as a dual purpose gun
Alb Lee

 

[2130martin]

I have .308,.223,12g slug for ground game,vermin,fox,deer and wild boar......Devon and Cornwall......

Martin

 

[Dalua]

ITS THE FLD WHO WILL NOT PASS 243 for FOX even for a professional full time pest controller who has 243 for deer........
Others have got 243 for fox but general from a few years ago

I would write to the FLD asking for a written explanation of their position. Then you'll know where you stand, and you'll be in a good position to make a case for them to take a differnt view of the matter.

 

[matt_hooks]

I would write to the FLD asking for a written explanation of their position. Then you'll know where you stand, and you'll be in a good position to make a case for them to take a differnt view of the matter.

Dalua, I tried that with TVP. They sent an FEO round. They steadfastly refused to even acknowledge my letter in writing.

 

[Dalua]

It's interesting: what is one meant to deduce from that?

I think the next thing would be, having made notes during the FEO's visit, to summarise the meeting accurately in another letter to the FEO, copied to the manager, requesting a written explanation in writing within a reasonable (but specified) time-frame; and adding that should no reply be forthcoming, the correspondence to date would be forwarded, with a request for futher assitance, to the Chief Constable.

I feel very strongly that we owe it to ourselves and our fellow-, and future-FAC-holders, not to let the FLDs think they can impose unjustified restrictions on us.
They are not school-masters, nor we their pupils.

Firearms Law, the purpose of which is finely to balance the maintenence public safety (ostensibly) against the freedoms of the law-abiding, is far too important to be trivialised by a 'because I say so' attitude on the part of those who are meant to be impartially and fairly administering it.

 

[Gingwa]

Cheshire

I have .243 for fox and I'm in Cheshire.

It comes down to a certain individual in the office.

You need to contest it mate.

ATB,

Sion

 

[Tim1]

ITS THE FLD WHO WILL NOT PASS 243 for FOX even for a professional full time pest controller who has 243 for deer........
Others have got 243 for fox but general from a few years ago

Ranger,

If you're not prepared to take the advice offered then don't bother posting in the first place. I would reiterate that you need to get your facts straight and present your case in writing to the department. If they still refuse then you need to take your grievance to the Professional Standards Department and copied to the Chief Constable.

I have my 243 conditioned for fox by Cheshire as have others in the county on this thread and I know of another shooter in Cheshire who has had 6.5mm conditioned for fox in the last month.

Regards,

Tim

 

[Irish Bob]

HI a strange question but one that is very real for us in Cheshire.
Cheshire firearms LD will not let shooters use 243 for fox as it is unsafe but reccomend 222 or 223?
However with my open deer condition I can shoot deer in the county with both 243 and 308......
I would like some one to show me where it is safe to shoot 222 but not 243.
The result of this is many shooters who hold 243 for deer need to buy another rifle for fox.
Having said this there are many people who live in Cheshire cleared for shooting fox with 243.

Thats it rant over.........
There is a positive I love my 222!

Yep there are. It will be cleared for both fox and deer. I do not think they will grant it for fox alone.

 

[cjm1066]

Ballistic is easy!


If land is safe for a 243 on deer, we just need the FLO to explain how then aiming at fox changes the ballistics, the explanation would be worth publishing to enlighten us all.

 

[Irish Bob]

I think they are working on what calibre you need to do the job. A 270 is as safe as a 222 when fired at a target with a backstop behind. However, you do not need a 270 to kill a fox therefore fox control is not a good reason to possess one.

 

[Dalua]

I think they are working on what calibre you need to do the job. A 270 is as safe as a 222 when fired at a target with a backstop behind. However, you do not need a 270 to kill a fox therefore fox control is not a good reason to possess one.

This thread seems to me to be about discretionary conditions preventing the use for fox of a .243 for which good reason to possess has already been shown.

Although in fact shooting foxes might well, as dexscribed in the HO guidance, be considered to be a 'good reason to possess' a rifle up to 6.5mm, under certain circumstances.

 

[Irish Bob]

This thread seems to me to be about discretionary conditions preventing the use for fox of a .243 for which good reason to possess has already been shown.

Although in fact shooting foxes might well, as dexscribed in the HO guidance, be considered to be a 'good reason to possess' a rifle up to 6.5mm, under certain circumstances.

It is, but I believe that the .243 is a cross over rifle that appears in both the deer and fox categories. If you are not putting down deer I think they are going to try and steer you to one of the smaller calibres in the fox category unless you can show a good reason for having a .243.

13.24 shows why they are putting mentor conditions on applicant's with little or no firearms experience.

Fox
13.23 Common rifle cartridges considered
suitable for the shooting of foxes range from
.17 Remington, and .22 Hornet to .22 -250
and .220 Swift, though there is a wide range
of suitable similar calibres commercially
available. In windy areas, where heavier bullets
aid accurate shooting, or if applicants wish to
use one rifle for shooting both deer and foxes
they may choose a rifle in 6mm (.243/.244) or
6.5mm (.264) calibre. .22 Rimfire is generally
too low-powered to be used against fox
except at short range, but may reasonably be
permitted for use against such quarry in
certain circumstances. However, sole use
against fox would not normally be sufficient
“good reason” to acquire such a rifle (see
paragraph 13.15). Combination shot gun/rifles
should have the rifled barrel in a similar
calibre. Expanding ammunition should be
authorised for shooting foxes. Those involved
in shooting foxes will normally be authorised
to possess up to 250 rounds and acquire 200
at any given time, but consideration should
though be given to each shooter’s individual
circumstances, particularly where re-loaders are
acquiring missiles. See also paragraph 13.14 on
allowing applicant’s flexibility to reasonably
shoot other species on named land.

13.24 It is desirable that new applicants
should have some previous experience
of the safe use of firearms before using
such rifles.
​