'EAT NOT' Ketchum Ear Tag - Whats That Then?

[ndjfb00]

A few days ago I was scrolling through FB Reels as you do with AI serving me anything remotely to do with deer and this vid popped up - . I had to watch it a couple of times as I couldn't see any ear tag applied, having had an issue in the recent past where a non vet applied a sedative to a Fallow Buck and again no tag I was applied (aired on YT) I thought I would drop them a line asking all the obvious a) was that a vet sedating the Roe? b) what was the drug used c) why no 'EAT NOT' ketchum type tag applied?

Ive also sent an email to Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons for clarity as I'm by no means an expert in this field. Today I received a reply from the Rescue Org in question who stated the female in the video was indeed a qualified vet and applied medetomidine to the Roe and confirmed they were unaware of the EAT NOT ear tag requirement, they have now been ordered for future use.

If you are interested Google ' is medetomidine safe for humans'

Anyone stalking in Leatherhead, M25 underpass area who shoots a Roe Doe with marks as per vid might want to let the mother in law try it first I shouldn't joke it's a serious omission on the part of the vet in this case

 

[SimpleSimon]

I'd be interested to hear from @Buchan on this. Google tells me there's no published withdrawal period for meat with this drug, as it's not licenced/intended for livestock. Apparently similar drugs have fairly short withdrawal times

 

[peter a]

I shot a roe buck that had a broken front leg. When I examined it I found a tag in it's ear with do not eat and a telephone no. On further examination I found scars on the hind quarters from a previous injury. I decided to ring the telephone number on the tag and got through to the R.S.P.C.A at Kings Lynn, they checked their records and it had been brought into them over a year previous and when recovered it had been released locally to them. Where I dispatched it was over 40 miles as the crow flies from where it was released. The poor deer had a hard life but travelled a long way. I did not put the carcase into the food chain.

 

[Selous]

There is no maximum residue level (MRL) for medetomidine so the sedated deer should not enter the food chain. It isnt a drug usually used in food producing animals so determining a MRL will never be done as it makes no commercial sense. The use of the drug is therefore off license and so you are correct a not for human consumption tag should have been applied.

 

[Buchan]

To add to Selous' comment, medetomidine is an alpha-2 agonist, and other similar drugs (detomidine, xylazine) are listed in the EU 37/2010 as not needing an MRL, so they can be used, but not medetomidine.
To reassure anyone who might by chance eat it, the drug is very rapidly eliminated from the body - within days - and there is a human version of the drug in use in intensive care units. So it would be safe to eat.

 

[ndjfb00]

Thanks all for your comments, I'm glad I raised it and posted as I have learnt a lot from this thread

 

[long_range_rob]

I have a colleague who volunteers for this bunch. He’s been told several times to take “rescued” deer that don’t make it off to the woods to dump I have made him aware of the rules regarding fly tipping biohazardous waste but, as with all well intentioned ideological extremists he’s so convinced of his moral high ground it just bounces off.

To be honest I hope they get nicked.

 

[Jh1986]

Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons

confirmed they were unaware of the EAT NOT ear tag requirement

FFS, what a joke. We had an instance of a deer being darted and released without a tag, in our village. Utter stupidity.

There I was thinking ignorance was no defence in law

 

[ndjfb00]

Still with this topic, just had the following reply back from the VMD (Veterinary Medicines Directorate) which reinforces what others have said.

Thank you for your email.

Medetomidine is not authorised for use in food-producing animals, including deer, so there is no data on the product’s residual effect on these animals. In addition, no assessment of the situation you’ve outlined could be made without knowing the dose administered, the animal’s weight, and whether it has any conditions that might affect the metabolism of the product.

If Medetomidine is administered to a food-producing animal, the animal must be permanently excluded from the human food chain by means of a permanent identification such as a tamper-proof ear tag.

To report concerns about the animal in question you may want to contact customeradvice@apha.gov.uk for further guidance.

Regards,

Catherine

Veterinary Medicines Directorate

 

[Jh1986]

Pointless now. Not like they're going to be able to track down that exact deer. Examples need making.

 

[VSS]

Personally, I think that the "eat not" tags should be augmented by a distinctively shaped ear punch.
Tags can - and do - get lost.

 

[ndjfb00]

I did reply back to the VMD asking if that's it then? No corrective action or advice into the vet in question? I requested, who enforces governance when there has been a breach in procedure, I'm not expecting a reply

 

[Scuffy]

I have never darted a wild deer and not euthanised it. In my experience, if you can get close enough to dart a wild deer, knowing that it cannot bugger off once darted and not be found, it is very severely compromised.
With captive deer, wherever that may be, as well as Eat Not tagging, I remove top tip of the ear so there is a permanent marker that the deer has had anaesthetic. The deer is photographed and the drugs used info is recorded by park/farm/zoo. This is common practice in UK and European Zoos.
Tags fall off regularly.

 

[Chris Richardson]

I have a colleague who volunteers for this bunch. He’s been told several times to take “rescued” deer that don’t make it off to the woods to dump I have made him aware of the rules regarding fly tipping biohazardous waste but, as with all well intentioned ideological extremists he’s so convinced of his moral high ground it just bounces off.

To be honest I hope they get nicked.

easy enough to sort report them

 

[VSS]

I have never darted a wild deer and not euthanised it. In my experience, if you can get close enough to dart a wild deer, knowing that it cannot bugger off once darted and not be found, it is very severely compromised.

With captive deer, wherever that may be, as well as Eat Not tagging, I remove top tip of the ear so there is a permanent marker that the deer has had anaesthetic.

This I think should be compulsory, as per my suggestion in post #11

Tags fall off regularly.

Indeed they do.
Which is why I tattoo a number in the ear of all my sheep in addition to the statutory tags.
Retention quality of tags took a significant plunge at around the same time as sheep tagging became a legal requirement, presumably because production was ramped up and lots of new manufacturers jumped on the bandwagon, knowing they had a captive market.

 

[Buchan]

The OP in flagging this to the organisation has done a great job of education, thank-you. Calling for stronger action or an example to be made - what is to be gained by it? Removing the livelihood of the vet by striking them off the register is not in anyone's interest.

 

[Scuffy]

The OP in flagging this to the organisation has done a great job of education, thank-you. Calling for stronger action or an example to be made - what is to be gained by it? Removing the livelihood of the vet by striking them off the register is not in anyone's interest.

The Royal College try their hardest to make an example of anyone administering remote immobilisation that is not a veterinarian, but its ok to close ranks round one of your own ?

 

[WW.]

The vet should know better IMO. There isn't an excuse, withdrawals are a standard part of Veterinary training.

That being said, I've been through the RCVS complaints process after a client took exception to me and having been on the receiving end I would not hastily wish it on someone else. Sometimes a quiet word first is the better option.

 

[Jh1986]

Calling for stronger action or an example to be made - what is to be gained by it? Removing the livelihood of the vet by striking them off the register is not in anyone's interest.

I'm not suggesting people need to be dragged through the streets in chains, but if it's left then nothing happens and nobody else needs the warning. It'll continue.

Make an example and word spreads amongst colleagues and the industry. Everyone makes certain not to make the same mistake.

What if someone shot it later that day and ate it, having some reaction? Gross negligence manslaughter?

 

[ndjfb00]

Sorry about this, a 2nd reply from VMD based on me querying how this Vet world works in terms of due diligence if something is highlighted which to the uneducated looks wrong.

I'm quite clearly no expert but this reply doesn't feel right to me, appears a bit blasé especially as the 'vet' in question has already admitted they knew nothing about ear tags having to be applied, I do understand the need for the cascade option, Im happy to be put right though.

"Thank you for your reply to us.

Vets are able to use what’s called the ‘cascade’ when prescribing. Where there is no available veterinary medicine authorised in a particular territory for the specific indication or condition in the animal being treated, to avoid unacceptable suffering, vets are permitted to use their clinical judgement to treat animals under their care in accordance with steps of the cascade.

In the situation you have raised with us, the vet will have been acting under the cascade when using the drug and is therefore compliant with the the Veterinary Medicines Regulations, for which we are responsible.

I hope this helps to explain but if you have any further questions please get in touch with us"

Regards,

Catherine

Veterinary Medicines Directorate