Oradour Sur Glane, scene of a 1944 SS massacre in France

digger9523

Well-Known Member
Miles off topic, but thought it worth mentioning.

Just came home from a summer holiday in France last night.

Went to a place that I'd always wanted to visit called 'Oradour Sur Glane'. Here's some history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane


While i was walking around looking at the ruin of what must have been a typically pretty French village, i saw on my map the village forge. I thought it would be too much to expect, but to my surprise the anvil was still sat where the village blacksmith had left it all those years ago and it still had whatever hardie tool he had last been using in place. The heat of the fire when the SS torched the place must have been intense, the hardie tool appeared to have melted a bit. There was no visible sign of the actual forge, i can only assume it was destroyed when the roof came down.


This is how i saw it:


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The church:

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where 452 of the women and children were killed was also burnt down, and the heat in there must also have been intense, as this is what remains of the bell:


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Note the bullet holes inside the church walls:

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High and low hits, women and kids height.....

From what you can see there now, it would be hard to imagine what it would have been like if you've never seen anything like it before. I saw similar scenes on a smaller scale in Kosovo, so i could picture how it might have looked quite graphically in my minds eye. Pictures only show so much, you don't get the smells that come from burnt flesh and decay.


The museum/memorial is excellent. It displays artefacts from the rubble in a sort of tomb setting near the graveyard. Plaques from very many different people/organisations hang around the memorial expressing their condolences and thoughts of remembrance. Here's a shot of a typical display in the museum, note the cigarette case with the glancing bullet strike of what i gauged to be a 9mm, possibly from an MP40 or even a Luger:


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I like to think that the spirits of the innocents are kicking around the souls of the SS barstewards in whatever afterlife that waits for us. In particular, i hope that young Jean-Paul Haas (who was only 2 months old when the heroes of Hitlers elite decided he was a threat) is providing the SS with an eternity of diarrhoea drenched nappies infused with the essence of the strongest garlic and whatever that superglue like substance that baby dung consists of to bathe in:


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Was this his little pram up near the alter?:


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If anybody on here ever gets out to France, it's well worth a look. It was left as it was for people to see, so it's not disrespectfull to visit.:(
 
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I visited Dachau concentration camp a couple of times when passing through the area many years ago. Extremely sobering experience...

What struck me was the contrast of what went on there, in a camp situated in one of the most beautiful areas of Germany, Bavaria.
 
Part of my school life I spent in Germany. In that time we had to visit concentration camps.
Apart from Dachau we vsited a camp close to Prag and whilst in the army we had to look at
Bergen Belsen. Very sobering.
During the war my Grandmother who had an English passport and lived in Germany was arrested and almost thrown
into concentration camp because she burst out laughing when a SS officer held a speech....
luckily she had enough friends to get out of it.
Those who survived seemed to have been lucky several times.

edi
 
The massacre at Oradour has an entire extra level of horror associated with it, as many of the SS privates there were guys from Alsace conscripted by force after 1940 when the Germans re-annexed the region. Needless to say that some pretty unpleasant methods of coercion were used to make these poor b@st@rds do this. Quite clever really: once they'd done this, you can't go back. I'm from Alsace, and my great uncle was one of these "malgre-nous" ("despite ourselves"), although he was sent to the Russian front. He turned himself over with his friends to the Russians, but they weren't too interested in the subtleties, so he stayed in Siberia until 1947.Not to say that the men at Oradour didn't do an unforgivable thing, but it wasn't exactly a free choice. You hear of very similar stories with child soldiers in Africa. These guys are all damned either way.
 
Whilst on a holiday to France we visited Caen, we visited the DD museum, a very interesting place, but what moved me to tears as a father of two girls who were in their teens, a photographic display detailing the sentence given to a sixteen year old girl, caught carrying a message for the french resistance, the display shows her standing smiling, albeit awkwardly, to the camera with her hands tied up by wire, then climbing into the back of a lorry with a canvas top over a frame, then standing with a fat german solder in the back of a truck surrounded by townsfolk and armed solders. The final picture is of her hanging from the frame at the rear of the truck by a wire noose. That diorama has moved me more than any other pictures of atrocities man has carried out, you followed this poor girl to her death, surrounded by the inhabitants of her village. War is evil and mans inhumanity to man knows no boundaries. We must not forget our unsavoury past, a previous post spoke of concentration camps, the British invented the idea of concentration camps during the Boar war, Boar families where taken off the family farms, the crops and farms burnt, and the families were concentrated into camps, where many thousands died from diseases. This was to deny the commando's food and resupplies, we too have a dark side to our history. God forbid our children have to go through another world war, there are few winners, just survivers. deerwarden.
 
Having seen Oradour Sur Glane years ago on "The World at War" I'd always wanted to go there, a couple of years ago I managed it when touring around on the bike with my wife. A very moving place and exactly as the film showed it. The French school system seems to encourage visits to the village by school groups to remind them of mans capacity for inhumanity. Oradour, along with the battlefield sites of the two world wars should be high on the list of must-sees for anyone who thinks warfare is fun or a video game!
 
Paraphrasing something I heard years ago - ' the language of war is violence... moderation in war is the mark of an imbecile...' only really made full sense to me when balanced by ' in war, everyone loses'.

Poignant pictures indeed.
 
Never been to any of these places as I think I would find it to upsetting. What mankind has done to each other since we learned to walk upright on two feet is staggering to me, and usually in the name of religeon or politics.


We must never forget all those that sacrificed their lives in the name of freedom and humanity.
 
Whilst in Germany, and speaking to German friends in their 20's I asked how they felt about the likes of Dachau being such a draw to foreign visitors and if they were ashamed of their history in that respect (not that we don't have any of our own to be ashamed of!) One reply was interesting, they want it to be remembered in the hope it never occurs again...

One of the simplest and most moving pieces of written word I have read, was on a plaque on the West Berlin side of the wall before it came down, at one of the check-points. It was a note of gratitude from the West Berliners to the East German border guards. I cannot remember word for word but it was along the Lines of, ' We are grateful to all the East German soldiers, who aimed but missed...' Not all East German guards wanted to be there either...

Only 2 weeks before my visit in the mid 80's an East German had been shot trying to flee to the West...

However one of the most despicable pieces of written word I have come across is that on the gates of Dachau that would be seen by all the prisoners entering there, 'Arbeit Macht Frei', translated; 'Work Makes Free'...
 
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My wife and I went to Oradour last year and a most moving place it is, the cemetery at the far end of the village with all the family photos takes some looking at, especially with all the children in the families gone forever. I'm glad I went even though it was for all the wrong reasons.
 
I went about 10 years ago. When you think about what terrible things happened there it just makes me shiver.

Andy
 
What would be in the mind of the soldiers who were told to shoot all of those people, it makes one shiver to think about it.
I remember seeing the release of one concentration camp on film and the german officers were made to carry the bodies of all the dead prisoners to their graves. Poetic justice!
 
This is one place I have on my to visit list. On one hand it’s tourism, on the other we need to see the horror in which we inflict upon ourselves and make sure that we never descent to such again.

I remember taking my dad to the holocaust exhibit at the IWM. I was moved by it and the horror of what we can do as a species, but it was honestly one the very few times I’ve seen my dad visibly upset.
 
Hmmm.
An interesting thread even though 13 years old. Sadly Europe under the Nazi jackboot is littered with similar atrocities in every country.
It never ceases to dismay me how man can be so cruel to his fellow man and for what?
Coincidentally last night I sat through Schindler’s List for the first time - I recommend all 3hrs 15 mins of it and suggest you Google Amon Goth who features large in the film for an example of the greatest scum who ever drew breath on this benighted planet. Then perhaps set him against Oskar Schindler who despite his many faults rightly saved so many Jews and even as a member of the Nazi Party became by virtue of his actions, one of those named on the Jewish Righteous among the Nations.
🦊🦊
 
Moved this thread to off topic, as its not really anything to do with Deer stalking, and an old thread.

VE day is upon us and its worth remembering such atrocities as this, and why many young men and women gave their all for the freedom we have today.
 
This is one place I have on my to visit list. On one hand it’s tourism, on the other we need to see the horror in which we inflict upon ourselves and make sure that we never descent to such again.

I remember taking my dad to the holocaust exhibit at the IWM. I was moved by it and the horror of what we can do as a species, but it was honestly one the very few times I’ve seen my dad visibly upset.
I went there in 2000 with my dad.I was 27 at the time & my dad 50
We never spoke in there,I couldn't take it all in.I don't think I could cope going to Auchwitz.
Like most folk I know the history of the these places,read books & watched documentaries but it'll never emotionally prepare you for a visit to such places.
 
Whenever VE Day comes around i always think of the song on the video attached! (Admittedly it was written about a soldier who was killed in WW1 but it is still so applicable for all other wars as well!)
My Mother and Father always visited France once each year. My father came from Fauntenbleau and it is believed that some of his family were attached to "The Resistance"! Dad hated "The Bosch" with a passion and served in the Free French Army as a tank commander, but he rarely spoke about what he saw or did during the war! Our family has a copy of a commendation written to my Father and signed by Charles De Gaulle along with all of Dad's war medals (There's well over a dozen medals) which is kept by our family with extreme pride.
I never went over to France nor do I wish to in order to visit the sites of any of these atrocities as I feel that it would be far too upsetting!
As has been said so many times on this thread it is disgusting what so called human beings can do to other humans in the name of so called "Freedom" - And it still goes on!


 
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