NGO gets tough on failing firearms licensing departments

[Orion]

The Home Office has given "Guidance" - which is basically like me asking my mechanic what I should do and him saying "well you could kind of do this, but if there's a problem it's on your head"!!! Firearms law is a mishmash of past legislation that gets more contradictory and complicated each time there's a tragedy. It needs a total re-write. Then they can start to put together an efficient universal licencing policy.

I think it's bit more than that though. The Guidance might not be perfect but if there was more consistency from the FLDs in following it, and in particular not deviating from the exampled conditions contained in the appendix instead of making their own up, then there wouldn't be half the problems and animosity from shooters. Some of them can really make a rod for their own backs.

 

[BunnyDoom]

I think it's bit more than that though. The Guidance might not be perfect but if there was more consistency from the FLDs in following it, and in particular not deviating from the exampled conditions contained in the appendix instead of making their own up, then there wouldn't be half the problems and animosity from shooters. Some of them can really make a rod for their own backs.

Yeah I agree with that - some of the conditions are utter nonsense. I think that's a training issue more than anything though - I've recently sent a copy of the Guidance with a covering letter as part of a variation, and quoted the wording that I would like to use if possible. There doesn't seem to be an issue with me doing this, but then I've also not made an enemy of my Licensing dept by threatening legal action every time I don't agree with a decision they make...

You're always going to get some bad eggs who become FLO's, and obviously they should be complained about if appropriate to do so. Personally though I've not had any issues that couldn't be sorted with a casual conversation or polite covering letter.

BASC seem to have promoted themselves as "fighting our cause" - in reality they just fill our heads with a misplaced sense of indignation and a load of inflamatory legal gumf, then fail to back us up when we regurgitate this at the FLO's!!!

 

[Taff]

Spoke to my FLO and hants on the phone also e mailed hants and got a reply sayin it was being sent to my FLO for his enquires to be completed.
Bunnydoom it would not help me to keep my original ticket as that ran out in June.

 

[Orion]

Spoke to my FLO and hants on the phone also e mailed hants and got a reply sayin it was being sent to my FLO for his enquires to be completed.

Taff,

I'm sorry to say it but that sounds to me like just another fob off from them.

It doesn't matter one jot where your application is in the system, the fact is that you have been in unlawful possession of firearms since June and remain so today.

Personally I'd send a polite email pointing out that fact and also that you made your application in good time. And as the failure to issue is entirely with them demand a S.7 Permit to Possess to be issued immediately. Copy it to the CC's Chief of Staff or their Professional Standards Dept. and things will happen mightily fast.

It's only by not complaining that this type of situation is allowed to continue and the FLD is starved of resources.

 

[BunnyDoom]

Spoke to my FLO and hants on the phone also e mailed hants and got a reply sayin it was being sent to my FLO for his enquires to be completed.
Bunnydoom it would not help me to keep my original ticket as that ran out in June.

Sorry Taff didn't see that bit - I know Hampshire are one of the slowest in the country and have heard a few horror stories, though they have always been dealt with swiftly.

The last complaint against Hampshire was sorted with a letter to the central licensing authority apparently, so maybe that's worth a go if you're getting nowhere?

 

[Widow83]

I know this won't help but Warwickshire seem very efficient and have always processed my stuff pretty quickly.

 

[mperring]

BASC is but one voice. If certificate holders do not complain to police en mass then don't expect the system and public servants to change. BASC are often ignored by police as is their prerogative and told that because certificate holders and applicants do not complain that there is no problem. BASC like the NGO can only do so much to influence the police.

I don't run to mummy and expect her to make it all better, I take advice and get stuck in. If my target becomes entrenched I take alternative action. With the police often a formal complaint is whats needed. It may not work in every case firstctime, but collectively many complaints about rhexsame subject has a better chance of changing the system. When all else has failed and associations have liaised to no avail due ro entrenched licensing staff, any complaint has a much better effect coming from the applicant than via an association. Applicants are the customers not BASC or NGO and who are easily dismissed by police as a pressure group with vested interests. Come on guys don't be deterred get stuck in. Police staff are accountable to its customers and we all need to get tough and help ourselves to make things better and to force the police to justify themselves in a proper manner. If we don't then they will continue to fail and in turn we fail with them.

Ps. The NGO press release may contain a quote from DCC Marsh but the NGO have no more power over the police than BASC or certificate holders/applicants beause the law makes the chief constable responsible. There are no legal powers to control chief constables other than a court appeal and only once a certificate has been refused. Conditions cannot be appealed.

If an BASC member feels let down by BASC then call me on 01244 573010 to discuss.

Matt, BASC Firearms & Explosives Officer

 

[Moray Outfitting]

We've written elsewhere about support for the BASC and regardless of his employer ( BASC ) Matt ( above ) makes some valid points.

If there are issues with any of the sporting organisations - good, bad or indifferent; and I don't doubt there are genuine issues out there - would it not be more coherent across the Forum to have those in their own thread(s). At the moment there are some important issues under debate in various posts - but most of them are mired in issues and opinions regards the organisations rather than the original issue.

This isnt an attempt to 'protect / coddle' BASC or any other organisation - BASC certainly are big enough and ugly enough ( I'm sure Matt's a good looking chap ) to stand their own corner. And its years since Alex Hogg (SGA ) was a male model...

In the current climate - politically - of budgetary justification, complaint statistics allied to under-performance carries real weight and gets noticed. Is anything guaranteed? No. But its as swift to pen a reasonable complaint as it is to stick a post on here.