How many stalks to achieve three completed ICR's for the DSC2?

[Erik Hamburger]

Interesting chat this afternoon with an AW and external DSC2 verifier who told me that, on average, DSC2 candidates have to do five Witnessed stalks to complete one ICR.
Or, if my maths is correct fifteen Stalks to complete your DSC2 Portfolio of three ICR's.
Now, assuming the average cost of a stalk with an AW is around £50, the total is £750 in fees, excluding any trophy fees, and excluding any carcass prices.
I would be very interested in any feedback on those figures - what is your experience?

My own sad 'progress' so far is:

Stalk 1: Cancelled by AW 'C' due to a lack of suitable cull deer on the ground
Stalk 2: ICR 1 completed with AW 'B'. Got very, very lucky!
Stalk 3: Cancelled by AW 'A' due to flooding
Stalk 4: No deer spotted at all on stalk with AW 'A'
Stalk 5: 6 deer spotted but no opportunity for a safe shot. 1 fox shot. With AW 'A'
Stalk 6: Cancelled by AW 'A' due to inaccessible ground because of rain and flooding
Stalk 6: Cancelled by AW 'C' due to bad weather forecast
Stalk 7: Cancelled by AW 'C' due to bad weather forecast

I must add that I much prefer an AW to cancel a Stalk because he doesn't want to take a client out on flooded land in fog, heavy rain and strong wind, than an AW who goes out with you anyway even if there is little or no change to shoot anything.
So, actually, all credit to those AW's!

 

[PointBlank]

So far I'm 7 witnessed stalks to achieve 2 culls

I have had a bad run of luck as well with everything out of season or skylined. The stalk I had last week was blanket fog so visibility was bugger all to see anything!

Next week is my last booked so I had better get this wrapped up!

 

[csl]

I think I've posted elsewhere, it took me 11 outings to complete mine. Wrong sex, wrong weather, wrong species etc. - the usual. Plus I freely admit that I am no 'super-stalker'. However on the up side I think it gives a greater sense of achievement having worked harder for it than maybe if you had gone out and done it all in a day on the same species, the same ground and the same witness (not taking away from anyone who has done it that way)

Alex

 

[6pointer]

I think the average for a novice is one beast in four 3 hour stalks. So you are all on the money.

 

[nigelg]

It took eight trips with two different AWs for me to get the three. Very glad its done and dusted though.

 

[Cooter]

My first four paid stalks (a full weekends stalking) were all about learning new things from a very experienced guide.
I got my first witnessed cull on my second stalk but I would never have consider it to be an ICR.
I completed the first ICR the next day, which was the last of the four stalks.

After that I took 18 months out to learn what I should have known before I registered for my DSC2.
Then three stalks in two months and it was all done.

It is very much luck of the draw, and if you pick the right AW with good ground, it can all be done in a very short time.

 

[bambislayer]

Depends on the availability of deer on the ground.

The last 2 I've aw'd have been done in a day, most are 3 days.

If we are experiencing misses or mucked up stalks, then we have to evaluate whether it's worth carrying on? It's best to go away, get more experience or range time in. The relationship with the AW is the same as that with a guide, comunication and honesty are key. It is far better to be told early on that you are not ready than wasting time and money on AWs and paid stalks. Wherever possible I would prefer to be on ground familiar to the "student".

 

[rogue trader]

PointBlank - Good Luck next week.

 

[Paul at Fechan]

Doing mine I spent £300 on shot fees + the outing fee but went to an area thick with fallow and did it in a morning. I know L2 candidates can try and try forever on the type of weaker grounds which are rarely fruitful when the best plan is to go where the deer are.

It's far better to spend smart money on shot fees per beast on good ground than AW fees for a lot blank walks.

 

[PointBlank]

PointBlank - Good Luck next week.

Thanks!

 

[Cut+Squirt]

Doing mine I spent £300 on shot fees + the outing fee but went to an area thick with fallow and did it in a morning. I know L2 candidates can try and try forever on the type of weaker grounds which are rarely fruitful when the best plan is to go where the deer are.

It's far better to spend smart money on shot fees per beast on good ground than AW fees for a lot blank walks.

Couldn't agree more -
I did five stalks and shot 5 beast.

Day one - nothing sighted.
Day two - deer seen, no shot.
Day three - three deer shot over two separate stalks - ICR 1 + 2 complete.
Day four - deer seen, no shot.
Day five - two deer shot - ICR 3 complete.

 

[Selous]

Two stalks for me!!

 

[Buchan]

Two stalks for me!!

Show Off!

7 here, mix of no shows, no shots and success

 

[Tackleberry270]

It helps if you can do it on your own ground where you know the deer and there habits. If you also have enough ground to make a number of approaches into different likely areas then the odds are in your favor! The rest is down to your skill ,competence and a few other factors falling into place on the day. ......I say 'a day' as thats how long it took me

 

[firsttimer]

Day 1- No deer seen and AW stalk cancelled due to rain
Day 2- Saw four roe deer and shot 2, 1 full ICR completed, part ICR completed
Day 3- Saw 4 OoS red deer and stalked in for part ICR and lucky me roe buck appeared and allowed full ICR
Day 4- Stalked into hind OoS to complete part ICR done under Day 2.

Happy days Level 2 completed

 

[Southdowns_stalking]

Top advice Paul, so many people try to do it on the cheap and will end up costing them more in the long run!

If you have your own ground spend time working out where the deer will be at different times of the day and how you would stalk in under different wind/weather conditions and time of day. You can then plan a full days stalking in with a AW and get the most for your money.

For those that dont have their own land spend time ringing around, going with recommendations, and asking what the cull plan is on the ground. You will soon work out how many deer are on the ground and what your chances are of completing a ICR.

Regards,

SS

Doing mine I spent £300 on shot fees + the outing fee but went to an area thick with fallow and did it in a morning. I know L2 candidates can try and try forever on the type of weaker grounds which are rarely fruitful when the best plan is to go where the deer are.

It's far better to spend smart money on shot fees per beast on good ground than AW fees for a lot blank walks.

 

[firsttimer]

Doing mine I spent £300 on shot fees + the outing fee but went to an area thick with fallow and did it in a morning. I know L2 candidates can try and try forever on the type of weaker grounds which are rarely fruitful when the best plan is to go where the deer are.

It's far better to spend smart money on shot fees per beast on good ground than AW fees for a lot blank walks.

Paul- As you are now an AW would you feel that doing 3 xICRs in the one day demonstrates a Candidates full ability to achieve Level 2? Different species/sex, weather, ground all present unusual challenges for the Candidate to demonstrate their knowledge and capability. Whereas a 'nice walk' in the park and shoot 3 deer may merely represent a single ICR with the exception of the stalk in? I appreciate that it has to be balanced against the overall cost to the Candidate and not penalise them though!

 

[Loki]

Hi
If I am correct (JRobson YDS can confirm) it took me 7 attempts for the required 3 ICRs. Weather and traffic (accident/diversion) hampered the other attempts.
In my opinion perseverance is the key - we had at least 1 grim day (heavy rain) but in the end JR's access to large areas that have good numbers of deer and his working hard to present them worked.

Pleased to say the least have met the criteria and awaiting framing of certificate!

Regards
L

 

[Tackleberry270]

Paul- As you are now an AW would you feel that doing 3 xICRs in the one day demonstrates a Candidates full ability to achieve Level 2? Different species/sex, weather, ground all present unusual challenges for the Candidate to demonstrate their knowledge and capability. Whereas a 'nice walk' in the park and shoot 3 deer may merely represent a single ICR with the exception of the stalk in? I appreciate that it has to be balanced against the overall cost to the Candidate and not penalise them though!

If you want any AWs opinion on it I will give you mine. I don't think there are many scenarios where you will be able to walk up to and shoot wild deer 3 times in a day without putting in a fair bit of work either on the day or before hand. Things also have to fall into place that are outside our control but proving your competence can be done just as easily in a day or spread out over a longer period. Its all in the PCs.

But I suppose you could have a special colour badge for doing it in the rain!?

 

[Mr Lewis]

I have witnessed 3 ICR's in three stalks lots of times and on at least 3 occasions I have witnessed all 3 ICRs in a single evening