NeilG
Well-Known Member
Pulse,Palour,Pupils, Pockets
Full bore, expanding round to chest = Pulse, Palour, Pupils, Priest ( Dog collar version that is, not a sharp blow to the back of the heed to make sure )
First Aid Training...Opinions please?
- Thread starter AviatingJoe
- Start date
Full bore, expanding round to chest = Pulse, Palour, Pupils, Priest ( Dog collar version that is, not a sharp blow to the back of the heed to make sure )
We had an incident at my club where a bullet bounced back from the backstop and hit the shooter smack in the forehead. Very unlucky, as this was a tube range.
He was staggering about in shock with blood pouring, insisting that he was OK, that it just needed a sticking plaster (which was all that we could find in the ancient first aid kit).
We eventually persuaded him to let us take him to A+E.
He ended up in the neurological unit having a fragment of 455 Martini removed from a sinus, which had to be reached via the eye socket.
We updated the first aid kit after that.
tackb
Well-Known Member
all our rco's carry field dressings and a very basic first aid kit , plus anything else they feel they would like to carry but in the event of an injury i feel confident that we could do as much as could be expected until help arrives which on most of the ranges we shoot on shouldn't be long?
i got trained in basic first aid off my own back so i felt more able to help in an emergency , prior to training i witnessed a couple of accidents and personally felt inadequate and unhelpful , since then i have witnessed and been HELPFUL in a few more.
i don't understand peoples reluctance to learn some basic stuff to help others?
i got trained in basic first aid off my own back so i felt more able to help in an emergency , prior to training i witnessed a couple of accidents and personally felt inadequate and unhelpful , since then i have witnessed and been HELPFUL in a few more.
i don't understand peoples reluctance to learn some basic stuff to help others?
On military ranges used by civilians there are personnel and systems in place to ensure a swift and competent response to accidents. You can't shoot unless they are there.
When the incident happened at the club there was no shortage of competent assistance. The only thing lacking was the first aid kit, which has been addressed. I updated my car kit afterwards, taking advice from a very qualified friend. Completely different now from what is supplied in the standard ones.
There are specialist online suppliers of the items which may not be available at Boots etc.
Now here is a possibly contentious question, for an educated amateur would it be worthwhile considering carrying Celox, or similar, in preference to a couple of Hereford dressings ?
Tackleberry270
Well-Known Member
I've done the 3 day course. It gives you the basics that could save a life but only if the emergency services arrive quick to take over. And they have changed the rules again now to say you can remove splinters so long as the tweezers are stored seperately to the first aid kit to prevent untrained users.
No. Haemostatics not that useful. You can stop almost all bleeding with a decent pressure dressing. If you want haemostatics then you need to bandage on top. You don't pour and go.
Tourniquet even less use.
PointBlank
Well-Known Member
Celox isn't going to save anyone hit with an expanding bullet, maybe if they only had their leg or arm blown off then a tourniquet may be useful.
Other injuries can be pretty much covered with making do with what you already carry, field dressings are bulky items to be carrying around with you all the time "just in case". I'd sooner cut some clothing to make a temporary dressing if that serious and worry about the infection later.
Other injuries can be pretty much covered with making do with what you already carry, field dressings are bulky items to be carrying around with you all the time "just in case". I'd sooner cut some clothing to make a temporary dressing if that serious and worry about the infection later.
Last edited:
Thanks chaps, sounds like Celox would be a useful complementary to traditional dressings, but not a replacement.
Unlikely to have to deal with a hit from an expanding bullet, but if so, I'd like to have every advantage, rather than just give up.
Any downsides ? I know about the potential for thermal damage. Would it hinder recovery, damage tissue, if used inappropriately ?
Unlikely to have to deal with a hit from an expanding bullet, but if so, I'd like to have every advantage, rather than just give up.
Any downsides ? I know about the potential for thermal damage. Would it hinder recovery, damage tissue, if used inappropriately ?
Maybe topped off with a handful of sphagnum moss ?
That is rather "old-school" if you don't mind my observation.
Cheers
PointBlank
Well-Known Member
better than nothing?
Certainly. Bootlaces also handy too.
The origional haemostatic 'Quick-Clot' could form burns. It was a powder so could get carried away in the bloodstream in theory and was difficult to remove from the wound. Celox (and newer formulations of Quick-clot [I believe] have overcome these early limitations. They are now much easier for a surgeon to remove from a wound.
If there is a LOT of blood you will not do harm (to be fair if you severed your femoral artery, used old Quick-clot and had to have surgery to remove burnt flesh it still beats bleeding to death). They are not for a cut finger. I would prefer you to use the impregnated gauze, but that is also bulky. Kills 2 birds with the one stone.
The most compact dressings I have found are either these from Boundtree TraumaFix Dressing (10 x 18cm Pad) - Delivered FREE for ONLY 2.15 from Bound Tree Medical Europe Ltd.
or these from SP T4 Trauma Dressing Pad with Elasticated Bandage - SP Services (UK) Ltd
I agree that sterility is not an issue. The problem with improvised dressings and self treatment is if you have damaged your hand or arm, the last thing you may be able to do is start cutting strips of material to create your own dressing. A pad with an elasticated bandage is the easiest to self apply (as per my 2 links).
cervushunter
Well-Known Member
Wow , interesting thread.
Looking forward to my three day course starting tomorrow
Looking forward to my three day course starting tomorrow
They look excellent. Velcro fastening sounds ideal. Thanks for the tip.
AviatingJoe
Well-Known Member
With your points considered, touché on the DB subject, however, the full bore rifle expanding ammunition I can't say I have tended to any, as you so competently point out. However, having dealt with 7.62 and 5.56 bullet wounds (obviously in different circumstance), and seeing a few chest wounds, I would say there is a better chance of survival if 1) the casualty is aware of how to prolong his/her own life, 2) the speed at which the casualty is in professional hands. Therefore the intermediary, which could be any of us, having a little more knowledge could be the difference between life and the obvious.
All of this subject is worst case, but that worst case day, is when you need that extra little bit of confidence.
Cant argue that there could be scepticism in regard to what could be another money spinner however... the only way to conquer that scepticism will be to allow the student to do the talking. At the moment this is a poll of interest, but with a view to setting up a meet and allowing people the chance to learn. There is no knife to the throat public relations team cold calling anyone
AviatingJoe
Well-Known Member
Full bore, expanding round to chest = Pulse, Palour, Pupils, Priest ( Dog collar version that is, not a sharp blow to the back of the heed to make sure )
You'd be surprised at what the human body can survive!
AviatingJoe
Well-Known Member
AviatingJoe
Well-Known Member
Haemstats are a good piece of kit with careful and proficient use. But can also cause a lot more complications.
Tq's are actually very useful and with a little imagination, very versatile, everything from a sling for a sprained wrist, to stopping a life threatening femoral bleed, and all in between
Similar threads
