RE land rover defender demise

Love 'em or hate 'em, everyone has their opinions - series 3 - the BL years, what else is there to say... :british:

I bought my first one in the early 1990's a 1960 SWB petrol Series 2 soft top; an afternoon in the workshop had it stripped down to the bare essentials and a list of welding jobs made. After evening and weekend tinkering it was back on the road with not much more than the welding and a set of new tyres - oh and a set of seats out of a Cortina Ghia as some scrote pinched my nice original grey 'elephant hide' vinyl seats out of it.

Since then I have always had at least one Landrover of some description and at the moment my shooting truck is a 1995 90 Station Wagon that I bought in 2002.

11 years on and that 90 (don't like the name Defender it's a marketing gimmick) is still going strong, yes it needed a clutch fork at the usual 80,000 odd miles but it was easy enough to do; rear cross member replaced 5 years ago and aside from the odd light bulb nothing else replaced (so far... fingers crossed... tempting fate here...).

Enough room in the back for three spaniels (yes I know... :banghead:) sitting on a wooden shelf supported over the seat frames and room enough for the carcass box underneath (it's a closed lid one so no dog slobber on dead fallow before anyone says anything about best practice etc.)

Last year on the shoot where I pick up there was me in the 90 with the game/beaters trailer on the back and two others in L200s, one of which was almost just out of the showroom, all on similar all terrain tyres. I went first along the side of a field - imagine a side slope on an uphill incline covered in mud... was a bit slippery but not so as to require use of the diff lock (can't recommend Grabber AT2 tyres highly enough).

Having got to the point where we park up there was no sight of the L200s behind me. Looking back across and down the field there they were, both L200s sat with the wheels all spinning - couldn't go forward, couldn't go backwards. That's traction control for you - all four wheels going the same speed, computer says the vehicle must be going forward... :rofl:

Being the kind and considerate person I am :norty: I laughed and left them to it! Eventually they both managed to reverse out of field and the dogs got a nice long walk to the drive!!

Yes, you need to open the drivers window to get your elbow out, yes they are a bit on the noisy side, etc. but at 6'3" I can get in and out easily even wearing the wet weather gear and bush hat. My mates have a variety of Mitsubishi's, Toyotas, Nissans etc - one even had a Ford Ranger till the medication started to work :cuckoo:, but none of them go anywhere I can't follow and I used to hate to have to drive an '04 plate Hilux on a shoot I went to as leg room and driving position in it was appalling.

Personally I think that Landrover have missed a trick, they kept the old Defender going too long and stuffing a Transit engine in it rather than developing a new version to compete with the various 4 door double cab offerings on the market today was plain daft.

The 'new' Defender looks carp IMO and if and when I ever need to replace the old 90 (why would I when I can buy a galvanised chassis and galvanised bulkhead together with all the other bits that simply unbolt when they're worn out or rusted through from any number of specialist suppliers) I am afraid it will not be for anything Japanese - current favourite is a VW Amarok.

Now there's a thought, why did the design team at LR not think of doing a vehicle like the Amarok... car comfort and performance, economy to boot, large load area, sensible styling, practical to use, etc.

Hmmm, end of an era; I remember when I was a boy and Landrovers had corners and flat sides...:old:


brought a toyota , went everywhere landys went but in comfort without breaking down , the end.

sorry my story is shorter than yours , I could pad it out with the ten side of the road recoverys I endured during my land rover years? (And that was just one of the hateful things!) or the truly dreadful after sales service?
 
its all down to the fact that the british army keep landrover going for millions of years...............and even thats all going down hill too.

am i happy that they are not making them after 2015..................to right what a heap of poo.

shame about the forces though.

bob.
 
Goodness troops !!. What a lot of comments, good and bad. I have had, probaby ten Landrovers over the piece and kinda agree with all the comments, in a way. I admit Iv,e never had to depend on them day to day (which is important) and I also admit to selling them for a living for a long time. I know of loads of people in both camps and there can be nothing more frustrating than having a vehicle that you depend on, letting you down when it really matters. I absolutely understand that.
Like a lot of ENTHUSISTS, I don,t actually have to depend on it very often. However, having said that, Iv,e rarely been let down either. Landrover (or rather,BL BAE, BMW,FORD and Tata) definately have not seen a rosy future for the Defender. It is built on an old fashioned assembly line ( by comparison to all other Landrovers) and it is inefficient and not cost effective by modern standards. The next wafe of defenders, if thats what they are called, will be world beating vehicles which will accomplish the same sort of presence that recent products have acheived. They are committed to serving the existing market as well as well as addressing the spin off, suv market, which is massive in just about every corner of the globe. Vehicle manufacturers can address the market today and tomorrow, not yesterday, unfortunately. Rant over lol. Would I upgrade my TDCI in future ? Absolutely. Iain
 
Landrovers are iconic and I do have a real soft spot for them but to be honest they drive me nuts!!

most shittily designed interior, ergonomics, materials choice, fixtures and fittings, exterior hinges/screws, poorly structured door frames, mud/diesel catching crevices, aluminium vs steel contact points, shitty electrical systems, poorly insulated wiring, crappy door and window seals, mould and moss gathering gutters and runners, non galvanised steel, over engineered ladder chassis, poor tank siting and packaging, poor driving position and space usage, ......that's just off the top of my head!!!

Redeeming quality of being a wonderful off road vehicle is not enough for me to overlook all the above to buy one with my own money!

and the price ......

are you kidding me?!?!
how much!?!??
 
brought a toyota , went everywhere landys went but in comfort without breaking down , the end.

I just bought a 2nd hand Toyota 4x4 pickup truck, what you call a Hilux but with a gasoline engine. I'm learning from others that these are pretty rugged vehicles. Have yet to get mine off the pavement (timing chain guide replacement up coming) but I'm looking forward to it: Should be ready by deer season.~Muir
 
its all down to the fact that the british army keep landrover going for millions of years...............and even thats all going down hill too.

am i happy that they are not making them after 2015..................to right what a heap of poo.

shame about the forces though.

bob.

I endeavour to enjoy my "heap of poo" and nurture with tender loving care of the smother its bottom (rear cross member) in grease variety!

K
 
I now have a Hilux but its ***** offroad compared to my old Landy. However, driving the 70 odd miles to my best stalking ground is a lot faster and a lot more comfortable in the Toyota. Horses for courses I suppose.
 
I just bought a 2nd hand Toyota 4x4 pickup truck, what you call a Hilux but with a gasoline engine. I'm learning from others that these are pretty rugged vehicles. Have yet to get mine off the pavement (timing chain guide replacement up coming) but I'm looking forward to it: Should be ready by deer season.~Muir
Hi Muir, take a look on youtube channel for hilux top gear test unbelievable what torture it absorbed.
I really hit a nerve with this post.
I had the privilege!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to spend some time in the Land Rover plant in 2005 and I saw first hand the work attitudes of the line workers on the defender track and it was really like Detroit was in the late 70s or the UK was in the early 70s terrible.
Martin
 
I now have a Hilux but its ***** offroad compared to my old Landy. However, driving the 70 odd miles to my best stalking ground is a lot faster and a lot more comfortable in the Toyota. Horses for courses I suppose.

You need to learn how to drive it then. My Hilux goes everywhere my 59 plate Defender went no problem. Top Gear tried to destroy a Hilux and failed they also took one to the Pole as yet the defender hasn't been there. Sales of vehicles tell you the correct story since 1948 Series 1 to the now Defender they have sold just over 1'000'000 (the 1'000'000 Defender came off the production line just before i bought my 59 plate). Toyota Hilux has been manufactured since 1960 and 30'000'000 have beed sold so which is the better vehicle !!!!!!!!!. My Series 3 is 41 years old but it has been almost rebuilt with only 103k miles so when you all say that many are still on the road but at what cost mine has cost me 1k this year. I wish that i had sold it and bought a Suzuki Jimny they are better off road than any Defender go to any off road course and watch them show Landy' the way home. 41 years later they don't look much different put wind down windows in the doors no split screen and a hump in the bonnet and hey prestow job done old looks same as new.

Jimbo


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Now wouldn't you think this is the D's B's and a smart truck. That's where it ends i bought this Defender 110 Utility top of the range XS model late 2009. It arrived with 13 faults from the factory on the way home less than 40 minutes i was pulled over by dibble as the stop lights had failed to work (checked prior to leaving dealership) i was lucky as he let me off. I contacted the dealership who stated that they could not have it back in for rectification for two weeks. To cut a long story short i had it for 2 years when i decide to sack it as Landrover had the 110 for six months of the 2 years trying to rectify the faults the last time it went back to the dealership it had 28 faults some were original faults still trying to be rectified. Leaking in water, leaking differentials, flaking/blistering paintwork, corrosion in the body just to mention a few of the problems. One of the dealership employees had the bad manners to say i had bought Defender thay are crap so what do you expect. So for me they will not be missed. I have replaced the Defender with a Hilux Invincible and this is a far superior vehicle than any Defender. The Hilux has just had it's first service and i just get into it and drive it and it goes everywhere the landy went.


Jimbo


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Here's the new one it may have coil springs and not as the Serie's leaf springs as RED DOT goes on about but i can tell you that the ride in the new one i had was no better than my Series 3 with Knackered springs.

Jimbo
 
Hi Muir, take a look on youtube channel for hilux top gear test unbelievable what torture it absorbed.
I really hit a nerve with this post.
I had the privilege!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to spend some time in the Land Rover plant in 2005 and I saw first hand the work attitudes of the line workers on the defender track and it was really like Detroit was in the late 70s or the UK was in the early 70s terrible.
Martin

Thanks! I've heard about that test. I'll look it up!
~Muir

Later: I just watched that show. That was the craziest thing I have ever seen. At the start it looked remarkably like my truck but for the color and the steering wheel location. Very encouraging! Thanks! :thumb:
 
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Land Rover Defender, the Land Rover is to become no more a little over two years from now. There is, for the first time since 1948 – 1948! – a limited amount of time to engage with the almost limitless choices of sizes, styles and accessories and (somewhat more limited) choice of colours that Land Rover offers new buyers of the world’s oldest vehicle.

Yup, best to call it a "vehicle" as its not strictly, depending on specification, legally a car. Many variants are commercial vehicles. So while it is a rural runaround, it's also a bus, or a pick-up a bus-up-around. You choose, but choose carefully, as Land Rovers go on for ever – it is said three out of every four ever built are still on the road, somewhere in the world. Which of course means there are something like 1.5million previously loved examples out there in various states of vintage and decay. And if you are of a hipster persuasion then one of these is what you crave, its hard-earned patina and sun-flattened matte paintwork the perfect complement to the bare brick walls of your authentic loft.

And its very tempting, so long as you search first for a local mechanic to keep your old warhorse on the road for you. Then again, with an eventual lifespan of 67 years when production ends in late 2015, if you buy one new, it might still be around for your grandchildren, provided of course they’ll still be able to buy diesel in 2082.

A new Land Rover is a very different proposition from a vintage one, but don’t get me wrong, it’s a very different proposition also from anything else you can buy today. Land Rover never really evolved the Defender, not say in the way Mercedes has with the much younger G-Wagen. The latest cars have electric windows, air conditioning, a properly pokey sound system and seats that adjust more than an inch or two, but that’s it; a fistful of different keys still indicates this car is old enough to draw a pension.

So do you want one? At just over £24,000 for a three-door, Defender 90 Station Wagon of course you do. You don’t need one, it will not be your regular transport and while you would never want to contemplate travelling more than 50 miles or so in it without a break, it is unquestionably a luxury you’ll kick yourself for missing. Why? Because like much contemporary luxury it shifts your reality, your perspective and makes you jump the tracks.

It’s a little tricky to drive at first but you soon learn. All you really need to do is slow down – and since when has that been a bad idea. You see more, take in more and do more. In one glorious week in the summer with a Land Rover I made more progress with the restoration of my early Georgian house than I’ve done all year. Moving a ton-and-a-half of rock out of my back garden might not seem like luxury to you, but the way I felt after it was done most certainly did.

And that’s the point of the Land Rover. Philosophically a pure utility vehicle, it is an enabler, the original lifestyle vehicle. It won’t be the only car in your garage, but it will be the one through which you will experience the most. It will enrich your life, your friends or your family. And all this in one of the most perfect pieces of industrial design the world has yet seen.
*

As good as ever Red dot! What complete tosh! Defenders should have been stopped years ago!
 
I'm not big on Dodge trucks but that video shows nothing other than a Landrover in 4wd pulling a dodge pickup truck. The Dodge wasn't in 4wd and has the least amount of it's weight over the rear wheels. God knows what kind of street slicks it had on: That was just a duded up street ride. The same kind of truck coming off of a Montana ranch would probably pull that LR at will. I see too many of these trucks pulling twenty-six foot, 5th wheel cattle haulers loaded with prime beef out of the back pasture country to lend too much credence to that video. Like I said, I'm not a Dodge fan, but neither am I a fan of anecdotal youtube vids as proof of anything.~Muir
 
As good as ever Red dot! What complete tosh! Defenders should have been stopped years ago!

And yet another well thought out and presented post from you....lets read your evidence to back up your knuckle-dragging reply whether it be about my posts or your superior knowledge of all things mechanichal... Do you even know what a dipstick is??
 
And yet another well thought out and presented post from you....lets read your evidence to back up your knuckle-dragging reply whether it be about my posts or your superior knowledge of all things mechanichal... Do you even know what a dipstick is??

Have a look in the mirror.
 
I'm not big on Dodge trucks but that video shows nothing other than a Landrover in 4wd pulling a dodge pickup truck. The Dodge wasn't in 4wd and has the least amount of it's weight over the rear wheels. God knows what kind of street slicks it had on: That was just a duded up street ride. The same kind of truck coming off of a Montana ranch would probably pull that LR at will. I see too many of these trucks pulling twenty-six foot, 5th wheel cattle haulers loaded with prime beef out of the back pasture country to lend too much credence to that video. Like I said, I'm not a Dodge fan, but neither am I a fan of anecdotal youtube vids as proof of anything.~Muir

:D
Yes I know, the comments by the author said the same
funny how many people will still see it as a victory for the plucky little rover!
 
People see what they want to see. A friend of mine has one of these Cummins powered beasts, and a smaller, older 2500 series. My turbo diesel Jeep Liberty -about the same size as a LR- tows 5000 pounds. Even with the smaller of the two trucks, the pulling power is 4 times that.~Muir
 
I'd be careful doing that with a land rover , you'll most likely rip your rotten rear cross member off !
 
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