Is .243 big enough???

Well that's kind of the question I'm asking! Am I going to struggle to humanely kill a Fallow with a .243? or am I just going to FU@& the meat up with a 308?

Cheers.

30.06 or .308 and a heavy bullet will suprise you on how little it wastes and you'll get DRT shots (assuming you can shoot) and enjoy a lapdog instead of supporting a tracking dog... .17 HMR is capable also... But is it right? Let the experts guide you but the proof is in the pudding.....
 
Your .243 will do just fine. There is a lot to be said for having just one rifle and knowing how it performs. And there is a lot to be said for using just one type of ammunition. Stick with something in the 90-100gr class, get to know the trajectory and wind drifts. Then, when an opportunity presents itself, you will know how you rifle will perform.

-JMS
 
There was a time when .243 and .270's were the calibres used by most/all UK stalkers, the .270 used mainly by Scots stalkers due to the extended ranges of the highlands.
However a well known Scots stalker by the name of Lee McNally used a .243 with great success over many years.
There were a few 'continental' calibres knocking around. mainly from Europe after the war but .243 or .270 was the calibre used by most of our 'home grown' stalkers.
I used a .243 for many years and accounted for many Deer, still have one too among others.
The .243 is a well proven calibre and the ammunition is available over a range of bullet weights for all available species of Deer in UK.
To my surprise, I have even seen it used, to good effect, on driven Boar in Hungary on two occassions using 100gn soft nosed bullets.
 
My take on this is 243 will do the job as stated up to & including red hinds - but it is at the lower end of what could be called optimum performance capability for the larger animals.

That's rubbish. The 243 is perfectly capable of cleanly killing all deer species in the UK. That's why the law is written the way it is. (As if that was obvious in itself, I discussed the matter with the draughtsman who prepared the E&W Deer Act. It was draughted to exclude the .22 centrefires.) Red deer are not particularly tough animals, they do not have especially thick hides nor are they heavy boned.

It is a great varmint calibre (what it was designed for),

Go and do your homework. It was designed as a dual purpose cartridge, varmint and medium game, that's why it has a 1:10" twist (unlike the .244 Remington which fell by the wayside and had to be rebarrelled and rebadged the 6mm Rem).

BUT fast bullets (above 2900 ft/sec) often result in bad bruising & carcase damage. They often fragment inside the beast & make a mess.

So can a bullet of any calibre. You cannot lay down hard an fast rules. I have had very clean carcasses with minimal meat damage shot at 60 yards with a 60gr HP from a 223 (MV 3000+) and I have also had a wrecked carcass shot from 60 yards from 140gr SP from a 7mm-08 (MV 2500). In Scotland one week, we shot 16 red hinds with three .243s (each firing a different bullet) and one .30-06. All of them produced similar wound channels and at the end of the week you couldn't have said which skinned carcass had been shot with which bullet.

Another problem with 243 is that it is marginal in meeting the legal minimums for larger deer.

That's not a problem. The 243 is fully capable of the task asked of it, that's the issue. In a BASC survey of stalkers, the majority of professinal stalkers used a 243 - and they were of course north of the border shooting reds - while the majority of amateurs used a larger calibre. What does that tell us? The 243 is fully up to the task. I know two professional stalkers. One is in Sutherland the other in the Central Highlands. One has a .243 and a 270. He uses the .243 himself and the .270 is for guests to use. The stalker in the central highlands has only a 243, and he shoots 160 hinds a year. Neither of these stalkers finds the .243 "marginal".

However bigger diameter 6.5mm to 30cal (heavier) bullets will do a better job, they usually get driven a bit slower (2500 to 2800 ft/sec) and often this causes less meat damage. These bullets carry enough energy to pass straight through creating better bleed out conditions. So IMHO a larger calibre is slightly "better" and more optimum.

I wonder how many deer or other large game have you shot with a .243? On a broadside heart/lung shot, the bullet punches clean through - even at extended range. In 1996, I shot a large doe pronghorn antelope broadside on at a measured 448 paces. That antelope was a similar size to a red hind (excepttheir hearts are about twice the size of a red deer). The .243 95gr Ballistic Tip (launched at 2925fps) punched clean through her heart and left an exit wound three inches in diameter. She leapt up and dropped dead on the spot. There was a cone of bright arterial blood on the blonde grass extending about 20 yards beyond the doe, clean evidence of the bullet's performance. I shot several others including one at 315 paces and another 270 paces. A heart shot in every case, and the bullet performed in a similar manner.

A great many people seem to underestimate the capabilities of the .243. It has it's limitations of course.

Big bullets deliver more energy & result in better knock down

Define knock down. Do you mean the reaction of the pronghorn doe I described, the animal dies on the spot? Or do you mean the red stag I shot two years ago, at a mere 75 yards, which ran off and was found dead 400 yards beyond. Strange, because that one was shot with a 180gr Interlock from a 30-06. The reason it ran off was because I hit it a bit too high and bit too far back. The larger/heavier bullet delivering "more energy" and "knock down" knock it down because it was in the wrong place. A .243 bullet in the right place would have been effective, would have killed the stag more or less where it shoot. If you put the bullet in the right place it will do the job, it can't do it's job if you put it in the wrong place.

And please no more comments about a bullet calibre/bullet will make up for a "marginal" shot because I would have to drag up the tale of the warthog and two hits from my .375H&H and runing 2km. If the bullet is in the right place then calibre doesn't matter, and if the bullet is in the wrong place then calibre doesn't matter.

FWIW, I generally use a 7mm-08 as my woodland rifle and a .30-06 as my hill rifle. I also have several 243s, and having shot a wide variety of game here, in the US and also Africa with the 243, I would have no qualms whatever in shooting any UK species with it.

-JMS


-JMS
 
sorry I've been biting my tongue but have to say it

.223 - about 20 ft-lb per live weight lb on roe weight animals
.243 - about 34 ft-lb per live weight lb on roe weight animal
.243 - about 14 ft-lb per live weight lb on fallow weight animals
.308 - about 20 ft-lb per live weight lb on fallow weight animals

so basically in the real world of relative size comparison the thump of a .223 on roe is comparable to the thump of a 308 of fallow, choice of bullet and drive speed with shot placement is key when looking at reducing meat damage
 
There was a time when .243 and .270's were the calibres used by most/all UK stalkers, the .270 used mainly by Scots stalkers due to the extended ranges of the highlands.
However a well known Scots stalker by the name of Lee McNally used a .243 with great success over many years.
There were a few 'continental' calibres knocking around. mainly from Europe after the war but .243 or .270 was the calibre used by most of our 'home grown' stalkers.
I used a .243 for many years and accounted for many Deer, still have one too among others.
The .243 is a well proven calibre and the ammunition is available over a range of bullet weights for all available species of Deer in UK.
To my surprise, I have even seen it used, to good effect, on driven Boar in Hungary on two occassions using 100gn soft nosed bullets.

Like this poster says many professional stalkers in Scotland used .243 and still do, it depends on your needs if you are going to be shooting Sika or big woodland Reds on a regular basis then a bigger calibre might be advisable.


For all other species including hill Reds .243 will be perfectly acceptable.


You will here the myth again and again that .243 won't stabilise 100gr bullets, and while it may be true in some cases the vast majority of 1 in 10 twist barrels have no problem stabilising 100 gr bullets.

Its down to personal choice at the end of the day, but for the person who only has one rifle for everything he could do a lot worse than .243
 
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JMS

Sorry but .243 is like a one inch cock, right at the bottom end of things for large deer. Would you be happy with it or do you want a real one?

While it can do the job on large deer with a prime shot sure, if the bullet is off and not in the heart/lungs then the relative damage is very low. I've watch reds with a .243 stay on their feet for over a minute with a 'good' but not prime strike. Why shoot large calibre deer with a small calibre cartridge?

This will hurt your feelings.

On big park reds a .243 at legal minimum is less powerful than a HV .22lr would be on muntjac based on relative energy per live weight pound delivered

FACT
 
I'll bet the guys that use them professionally mostly smack everything in the ear hole, or let it drop into the neck.
 
Not me, through the chest 90% of the time and that includes these hard to kill Sika:-D

Al

Your Argyllshire Sika are soft though.....;)

I always feel that the rifle/chambering should be chosen based on what its use is the majority of the time, not what it may be required for once a year. As the OP refers to fallow, which to be honest the few I've shot over the years seemed easy to drop, the 243 would not just be adequate it would do the job superbly. I wouldn't pick it for our Sika however...
 
Your Argyllshire Sika are soft though.....;)

I always feel that the rifle/chambering should be chosen based on what its use is the majority of the time, not what it may be required for once a year. As the OP refers to fallow, which to be honest the few I've shot over the years seemed easy to drop, the 243 would not just be adequate it would do the job superbly. I wouldn't pick it for our Sika however...

It's all the rain that's made them soft:-D

Al
 
JMS

Sorry but .243 is like a one inch cock,

:rofl:Yeah, you're not going to Fu*@ anything large with that!
Seriously though. If you are shooting Fallow at longer ranges, you'd be better with something a bit larger. The biggest wild fallow I've shot around here was 80 kg larder weight! That's a big old lump to put down at longer ranges! A .243 will do the job if you hit the right spot, but this is less likely further out for a whole host of environmental, ballistic and accuracy factors! A larger and possibly faster calibre will retain more energy to do the job efficiently. If you reload, I'd go for something like a 25.06. If you don't reload, then probably a .270 would be better as there is a better choice of factory ammo.
Imagine having a one inch cock!:lol:
MS
 
Perhaps its a case of "if you have to ask if the gun is big enough, its not!"

A chap told me the other day that .243's were only fit for shooting cats..

people say stupid things all the time Gary.

interesting how even the .222 used to knock over red stags up here just fine.

stick an 85g partition in a 243, put the bullet in the right place from a sensible distance and you won't need to go looking for the carcass. i do agree though, in the majority you shoot species larger than roe/munty/cwd, then go up to something 6.5, 7, 7.62 ish..whatever strikes your fancy....if you shoot +80% roe/cwd/munty, and will only use the .243 ad hoc for fallow, sika, reds, then it will do the job just fine even with a 100g fed. factory ammo. spend your reloading time on the 80% and go with something like 85g partitions or 87g hornady's.

just my opinion,,there's many of them!
 
As in the OP. 300 yds too if needed. I'm surprised there is a greater selection of 260 brass over 243! Heads, fair enough. Every day is a school day.
I meant better 260 brass than 25-06 brass, not selection. Lapua dont make 25-06 brass, well they didnt when i used 25-06
 
I picked up my 243 4-5 weeks ago as my summer rifle for roe and muntjac but i will shoot fallow with it ,just no its limits.i have been using a 308 for the last 4 years and love, it has a massive choies of bullets ,this will now be my winter month rifle when i will be going out with the bigger deer in mind on a regular bassis .good luck with whatever you go for.
 
I use a .243 a lot its the devils calibre cos most people hate it, I don't use it regulary on big deer but if I have to its diet of 85gn partions gets the job done.
For small deer I love it anything over roe it gets .30cal or will be trying the new 7mm 08 if I ever get round to zero it.
 
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