Lead free (copper) bullets

[Irish Bob]

When I have got through my latest batch of Lapua .243 ammunition I am thinking of having the cases reloaded with copper bullets.

I am wondering which ones to go for. I will be using on deer so they will need to be deer legal, might there be a problem getting to 100gr with copper?

Any advice would be appreciated.

I currently use Lapua SP 100gr in a Steyr Classic .243. I know very little about reloading. My interest comes from speaking to a vet regarding the dispersal of lead fragments in a roe carcass he x-rayed.

Thanks in advance.

 

[jcampbellsmith]

Bob

It's unclear from your post where you stalk, so it's not easy to comment on the legal permutations. However Barnes don't sell a 100gr copper bullet in 6mm diameter. The way I plan to approach this issue in Scotland is to shoot .308 Win ammunition loaded with 140/150 gr Barnes bullets.

Regards

JCS

 

[Yorric]

John
I'm currently using 130 grain TTSX for 308 - run them fairly fast (2900 ft/sec) with a big jump to the lands - work well so far.

Ian

 

[Irish Bob]

Bob

It's unclear from your post where you stalk, so it's not easy to comment on the legal permutations. However Barnes don't sell a 100gr copper bullet in 6mm diameter. The way I plan to approach this issue in Scotland is to shoot .308 Win ammunition loaded with 140/150 gr Barnes bullets.

Regards

JCS

Predominantly England.

I understand that the FC are moving down the lead free route (this information is from someone in Scotland).

 

[deerwarden]

When I have got through my latest batch of Lapua .243 ammunition I am thinking of having the cases reloaded with copper bullets.

I am wondering which ones to go for. I will be using on deer so they will need to be deer legal, might there be a problem getting to 100gr with copper?

Any advice would be appreciated.

I currently use Lapua SP 100gr in a Steyr Classic .243. I know very little about reloading. My interest comes from speaking to a vet regarding the dispersal of lead fragments in a roe carcass he x-rayed.

Thanks in advance.

My present manual lists the 243 up to a 85gn boat tail TX, Barnes tend to perform ballisticaly to the next weight of bullet up, so this will give you 100gn performance. I use them a lot, always in Africa in my 270 and a 130gn TTX has always performed faultlessly for me, I have only shot one animal twice, a blue wildebeest that took a step as I pulled the trigger, then took one thro the shoulders when he stopped 80yds later. The first bullet had gone thro both lungs, but he could have got into thick cover before expiring, so second was only a insurance/stopper to make life easier. You can get some data from the Barnes site, WWW.barnesbullets.com/information/ I have data for you if you want it from other sources. deerwarden

 

[finnbear270]

My Grandfather worked at the Chester leadworks, people walking home after work @ the "Deader" looked like they were ****ed, due to ingested lead by one means or another, I have not seen a deerstalker who eats what they shoot looking anything like ****ed, unless of course they are heavily into Guinness or such like, so I will continue to shoot soft points., some of the thinking on copper solids have come full circle, even in Germany.

 

[Cut+Squirt]

I believe the FC ran a trial on lead free ammunition, however never implemented it.
I think the jury is still out debating it's effectiveness. . .

Like many things it tends to be the FC which leads the way and the rest eventually
follow. . . If it does eventually get the go ahead it could lead to a glut of .243's sitting on the dealer's shelves, as I understand many will fail to stabilize the all copper bullets.

 

[Irish Bob]

Maybe this is one to put back on the shelf for now and just have them reloaded with Lapua heads.

A bloke who had been involved in using them on FC land told me that when they started they were using similar bullet weights in copper to the old lead bullets. They had a lot of runners until they reduced the weight. I recall him saying they were using 110 gr in copper and it stopped everything.

 

[long_range_rob]

I believe the FC ran a trial on lead free ammunition, however never implemented it.
I think the jury is still out debating it's effectiveness. . .

Like many things it tends to be the FC which leads the way and the rest eventually
follow. . . If it does eventually get the go ahead it could lead to a glut of .243's sitting on the dealer's shelves, as I understand many will fail to stabilize the all copper bullets.

The FC did TRIAL lead free but have no plans whatsoever to implement a ban. Europe is the danger here.

 

[Cut+Squirt]

The FC did TRIAL lead free but have no plans whatsoever to implement a ban. Europe is the danger here.

I agree, European meddling could sign the death knell, let's bloody well hope not.

 

[Hales Smut]

Europe is the danger for everything. Ban on lead, ban on docking tails, ban on releasing pheasants, .........
There is no proof that lead in " solid form" is dangerous for health. Lead in gasses ( from petrol ) is something else. On the other side, using Barnes TTSX bullets is no step down, but a move forward. Penetration is far better than conventional bullets and this combined with less meat dammage.

 

[Irish Bob]

...and thanks everyone for all the useful input, very helpful.

 

[billh]

These bullets are longer than lead based bullets. You can get Barnes TSX 85grain, Barnes TTSX 80grain, Nosler ETip 90grain but this requires 1in9 twist, and Hornady 80grain GMX.
I have tried the Barnes TSX and Hornady GMX and I was not impressed by either. The metal is much harder than lead based bullets and as such does not deform much on contact, stays in one piece and carries nearly as much energy going out of the other side of the animal as it went in with. The wound channel is around double the original bullet diameter. The bullet after passing through the body needs a lot of stopping and I believe could ricochet badly. I found them to be very inaccurate.
It is a laudable attempt to move away from lead but needs some further development.
PM me if you want chapter and verse.

 

[shbangsteve]

If you're worried about lead in deer what about pheasants, duck, partridge etc ? Far more lead in them.

 

[Double four]

I have never tried the .243 copper projectiles but have shot a number of deer from roe to very large woodland stags with the .30 cal.
I have since gone back to accubonds as I found the bares ttsx copper offerings less reliable, they did kill well on some shots but even with good accurate hits the larger animals would travel some distance before dropping dead something I never experienced with the accubonds.
On the plus side for me they were very accurate and there was always very little meat damage/bruising. and if you put them into the shoulders they would do the trick every time but at the expense of meat loss.
I have posted about copper projectiles before and had a lot of replies saying they are the dogs danglies so they work for them, just my findings I always like to find out for myself so I would get a box and try them just to see,. DF

 

[deerwarden]

These bullets are longer than lead based bullets. You can get Barnes TSX 85grain, Barnes TTSX 80grain, Nosler ETip 90grain but this requires 1in9 twist, and Hornady 80grain GMX.
I have tried the Barnes TSX and Hornady GMX and I was not impressed by either. The metal is much harder than lead based bullets and as such does not deform much on contact, stays in one piece and carries nearly as much energy going out of the other side of the animal as it went in with. The wound channel is around double the original bullet diameter. The bullet after passing through the body needs a lot of stopping and I believe could ricochet badly. I found them to be very inaccurate.
It is a laudable attempt to move away from lead but needs some further development.
PM me if you want chapter and verse.

There will be a movement away from lead based bullets used on animals destined for the food chain, light frangible bullets produce huge tissue damage with microscopic pieces of lead forced deep into tissues that could end up being consumed. Everything we do nowadays in our lifestyles is subject to the huge industry built up of health and safety, it pertains nowadays to everything where a white collar worker can find a possible inlet to earn money, what started out to safeguard workers in industry has gone beyond that and now rules many parts of our lives without us being aware. I've the TTXS and the TXS, the TXS has a small hollow point that go's deeper into a 4 way cut to expand the "petals" that Barnes have developed to cut the wound channel through the animal, early bullets "many years ago" had been known to pass through without opening up, similar to a solid. Copper work hardens when you form/fold or beat it, the process of forming the bullets may have caused this?, however all the ones I've used over the last 5 years, now do open up well, the TTSX has a plastic tip in the cavity and these have NEVER failed to open for me in over a thousand plus rounds in 270, 7x57, or 243 win, always produce a good wound channel you can eat right up too, and in Africa drilled through bone and to date, never deflected out of the line of sight through the beast I shot at, the P.H. always wanted a shoulder shot to hit bone. They work far better when driven at the high end of all load data, I have found them extremely accurate, they need to be around 70 thou off the land for best accuracy. All bullets ricochet whether copper or lead, hence backstop is critical on all shots, something we tend to forget as we are so focused on the kill zone of the beast. Barnes do however retain far more of the mass than lead does. We will see in our lifetime lead free ammo in all shooting activities including airguns as well, huge risk there due to continued handling of the pellet's. I love them, 4 P.H.s I've hunted with really were impressed with them, and I had no issues at all with accuracy if loaded as per Barnes advice from their website. deerwarden.

 

[billh]

Deerwarden, I am expressing my opinion and what I have said is my opinion and has been experienced by myself, no doubt as are you. If there is a movement away from lead based bullets then that will be due to a lack of concern by the shooting community to prove otherwise.
If meat from deer is to be put in the food chain then bullets used must be to a formula that does not cause poisonous substances to be distributed through the meat or some other shot will have to be taken that does not cause this i.e. head and neck shots.
I agree that the copper and guilding metal bullets are better at staying in one piece but in their current state of development they can be passing through thin skinned, narrow bodied British animals with a lot of energy still in them and are open to further deformation and richochet.

 

[Border]

Bonded bullets like the Norma Oryx, Nosler Accubond, Woodleigh Weldcore, Remington Core Locked Ultra etc are a step up from regular cup and core bullets.
In theory they should expand just as easily as their cheaper relatives but should spread less lead fragments in the carcase.
This has been done to death in Norway the last couple of years. The recommendation for big game (roe upwards) was monolithic or bonded bullets.
I have used Barnes TSX in 6,5x55 and 308W and they perform well. You just have to remember to go down at least one weight class compared to regular bullets as some chamberings may have stabilisation/expansion issues if too heavy a bullet is used.
Thankfully it looks like our blanket ban on leadshot for shotgun use is coming to an end and we should be able to use lead for all areas apart from wetlands.

 

[Selous]

I have use TSX and TTSX in 7mm and 308 with complete satisfaction on roe deer. I have a limited amount of experience of the earlier Barnes XLC in 22/250. I don't have any qualms using these bullets exclusively if need be as I find they strike a good balance between stopping power and meat damage. Like others have said, best to use a lighter bullet than normal and push them hard.

 

[Dorsettaff]

Bob,
Ive just loaded some Nos 90gr E-Tip in .243 to run thro my Blaser. Yet to chrono/test them...so watch this space.

One of the areas we stalk we have to use lead free heads and I have to say I am less than comfortable with them. Case in point was a large sika hind shot at 150m with a 180gr Nos E-Tip in a .300 WM, side on, "perfect" chest shot....However it was almost like that scene in "Life & Times of Judge Roy Bean" where the bullet blew a hole through the deer and both the deer and I watched it splash into the ground some 150-200m beyond it.....before the hind moved off for finally falling over a further 100m away.
Very concerned about the expansion having retrieved a few from back stops after zeroing/testing and some anecdotal evidence of ricochets especially having watched that bullet fly thro the deer and a good 200m beyond!
As ever it highlights the need for accurate shot placement and safe back stops!