Is .243 big enough???

[Klenchblaize]

lol

posted this before but contains the important information about the relationship between calibre in it's standard output of energy against the weight of deer species in terms of ft-lb per live weight lb. Interestingly but not on the chart, a high velocity .22rf would be about as powerful on muntjac as a .243 is proportionately on large park red

Also which is great, a 223 or roe is significantly more powerful proportionately than a 375 holloand and holland on reds!!! It's dead simple really, most shots miss the heart and so the greater the ft-lb per live weight lb, the more damage and quicker the bleed out.

A 243 Federal Premium Grade 85g Hollow Point Boatail will also do that to a red c/o dinner plate size exit wounds.


K

 

[Paul at Fechan]

That's like saying lets use the worst bullet choice available in the calibres with more potential to make the lesser calibres seem better using more appropriate bullet choices?!!... No one said 243 won't kill deer but how long that deer stays on it's feet is very important. Obviously more damage means quicker blood loss, anoxia and brain death. Having shot reds with 375 h&h and .243 I can safely say that while centre chest shot deer run nearly always, the 375 puts them down much quicker and without the need for second or even third shots as I've experience with the .243 on stags.

People with good experience tailor their bullet/calibre choice to the target species or deer and their size. I have 3 rifles in .223/308/375h&h and use:

.223
55gr v-max fox and bunny
55gr hp target
55gr sierra gk scottish roe / muntie / cwd

.308
150gr sst fallow and roe
150gr nosler bt reds and fallow
150gr hp target and zeroing
180gr speer sp pigs or bigger

.375 h&h
250gr sierra gk reds/sika/fallow
300gr Horny Interlocks Pigs or bigger

 

[Paul at Fechan]

I rarely disagree with Paul's posts, but I don't think the graph and data are 100% relevant. After all, we don't spread out the energy of the shot across the entire mass of the animal. We are looking to penetrate the skin and damage, say, the heart and lung. Maybe we should have a graph showing the weight of the heart and lung.

Ok, more seriously, echoing the thoughts in the subsequent posts, surely after a certain point it's down to bullet construction and the reaction once it penetrates the animal.

regards

Ian

that's true in one respect but proportion is a very important factor, and so the relative damage varies greatly based on an animals size. Take for instance a 15 kilo red deer calf and you shoot it with a .243 in the mid chest just above the heart into the lungs with a 'good' bullet. The damage massively overwhelms the animal and it is going to drop near enough stone dead on the spot. But then take it's dad at 150 kilo (10 times the size), this will not be the case and it may take a minute or more to bleed out.

The ft-lb to live weigh lb principal basically says that at equal values of energy to size the damage proportionately with the same shot placement and bullet obviously will be the same. This is why we go for really big guns when shooting dangerous game because the higher the ft-lb to live weight pound the quicker the animal dies!!!

 

[wraith]

I have 243 which has droped deer of all sizes from 20yards to 350yards with no problems built placement and acuracey count for far more than a bigger gun and I do have a 7mm rem mag I love the rem mag but the 243 with 55g to 105g has a lot going for it very underated calibre yet covers most things from rabbits to red deer

 

[palmer_mike]

I have found from direct experience that a 243 95grain bullet tends to kill muntjac quicker than a 150grain bullet from a .308 (on heart lung shot animals) where does this fit into the graph?

 

[tackb]

come on peeps keep pushing we've only got 12 more posts to hit a round 500

 

[berg]

what happens when we get there ???

 

[Klenchblaize]

what happens when we get there ???

We could discuss the .22 Hornet as a delightful wee roe rifle??

I like to be consistant!


K

 

[tackb]

We could discuss the .22 Hornet as a delightful wee roe rifle??

I like to be consistant!


K

the 22 hornets I've had dealings with had 'challenging' accuracy issues !

 

[berg]

the 22 hornets I've had dealings with had 'challenging' accuracy issues !

i know nothing about the .22 hornet are they any good and what can you shoot with them

 

[tackb]

i know nothing about the .22 hornet are they any good and what can you shoot with them

it's a dandy little idea , 40g bullet at just under 3000fps , you can shoot what ever you like with it (whether it kills it is another matter)

 

[Klenchblaize]

I suggest we invite Richard Prior to recount his experience in this singular aspect of early days UK deer management.

 

[tackb]

an old ghillie I used to stalk with used a 22 hornet for his hind cull for a lot of years (read a LOT of hinds) but he moved up to a 222 in the end because the ammo was easier to get ! (finally used a 243 in the end)

 

[berg]

it's a dandy little idea , 40g bullet at just under 3000fps , you can shoot what ever you like with it (whether it kills it is another matter)

sounds like a better option than the 17 HMR

 

[bewsher500]

I have 243 which has dropped deer of all sizes from 20 yards to 350 yards with no problems built placement and acuracey count for far more than a bigger gun

....

...until you shoot enough deer and you get some variables in your 0.2MOA POI target accuracy

I have never put a second shot into a red deer to knock it over with a .270........

 

[berg]

....

...until you shoot enough deer and you get some variables in your 0.2MOA POI target accuracy

I have never put a second shot into a red deer to knock it over with a .270........

How Manny red deer do you shoot a year ,just to gauge that post for those off us that don't know you

 

[Tulloch]

....

...until you shoot enough deer and you get some variables in your 0.2MOA POI target accuracy

I have never put a second shot into a red deer to knock it over with a .270........

Bewsher I would agree, I have seen hundreds of deer being taken by .270 at all ranges/variables and never seen a second shot needed .. Oh bye the way just to add I have seen literally hundreds of deer shot with .270 mainly hence why it has been my choice of big rifle ....

 

[bewsher500]

How Manny red deer do you shoot a year ,just to gauge that post for those off us that don't know you

Per year? Not that many
certainly less than anyone shooting professionally or stalking stags from the start of the season

over the last 27 years?
Enough to have first hand experience a wide range of shots from 30-250yds, at all angles and sizes of deer. And have seen poor shot placement from myself and others still knock them over and kill quickly.
you can kill anything with a .22lr if you hit it in the right place
not every shot hits that place

don't get me wrong I now use a .222 on roe despite some people saying it is too light.
I have never had one run let alone need a second shot, admittedly probably only 30 odd roe since I got it

red stags aren't roe
especially when testosterone fuelled and in the rut

 

[Muir]

I don't care for the 243 for the western US deer in my location. I have seen several hit and lost using it. My new lady friend, however, grew up using a 6mm Remington (ballistic twin to the 243 for all intents and purposes) to shoot north American elk. She lived on a ranch and that was her rifle so she used it. She killed 5 elk (and deer, I'm guessing) while in her teens at ranges to 250 yards. When I raised an eyebrow, she confessed that she never had an inkling that it was inadequate for elk. I told her that in her hands, it obviously wasn't.

I guess that's the end all of that discussion so, when she hunts with me for deer this fall, she'll be carrying my .243 despite my misgivings about the cartridge.~Muir

 

[berg]

I don't think the 243. Is what I would take for reds or fallow when when my 308 sits right next to it no more than I would have taken my 308 last last when I was after Munties witch are proving impossible to get at the moment .30 hrs+seen I don't know how many foxes and roe does but know Muntie witch are good shoots