S-class shoot Bisley Sept 28th
- Thread starter Oaken
- Start date
Slartibartfast
Active Member
I like the idea of this. And at the moment I am not sure if I am free.
What at does range legal mean? Would a .270 be okay?
What at does range legal mean? Would a .270 be okay?
c18rch
Well-Known Member
I want one.
Range legal means below the Bisley HME requirments or a holder of a HME certificate etc. .270 should be fine depending on your load. Check the NRA regs:
http://www.nra.org.uk/common/files/rangeoffice/range_regulations.pdf
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I think this is an ace idea
I only did the SGA shoot for 1st. Time this year & loved it .... Think a few o the lads I to rifles that keeper meet up various places & have informal shoots etc
If folk want an arms race ... Crack on !!! Let em .... As stated most folk be in it to compete with themselves ...
Only thing I would think bout myself is to keep it simple
Rifle doesn't meet rules / regs
Your still welcome to shoot
I like that
Good chance to meet some like minded folks
Well done that man
Ps hope the poster of the armchair commando doesn't mind I nicked that !!!
Hilarious
I only did the SGA shoot for 1st. Time this year & loved it .... Think a few o the lads I to rifles that keeper meet up various places & have informal shoots etc
If folk want an arms race ... Crack on !!! Let em .... As stated most folk be in it to compete with themselves ...
Only thing I would think bout myself is to keep it simple
Rifle doesn't meet rules / regs
Your still welcome to shoot
I like that
Good chance to meet some like minded folks
Well done that man
Ps hope the poster of the armchair commando doesn't mind I nicked that !!!
Hilarious
Thanks for your support guys.
To answer a few points that have been raised.
Everyone is welcome. More people just mean booking more lanes but I need to know if you intend to shoot so I can get the booking right!
If you don't have NRA membership or a Safe Shooter Certificate, the guest day status of the club booking will enable you to shoot provided you let us know your full name and address by 20th September and are accompanied 1:1 on the firing point by a club member.
By all means build a rifle specifically for S-class but it won't give you the massive "arms race" gains that a custom "F*" build would over a "standard" rifle for those disciplines.
The S-class restrictions should put the emphasis squarely on shooter skill. I'm thinking I should be able to hold my own with my old Tikka against any custom rifle that falls within the class or even a Blaser
Lol.
There are no prizes so seriously driven competitive types that choose to invest pots of gold in gear to gain any advantage in collecting trophies should look elsewhere. The winner should not be expecting anything more than a pat on the back and respect from the other competitors.
There are three reasons for keeping the round count down.....
From my point of view, getting people through the firing point quickly. From the shooters, the cost of bullets and barrel wear and lastly, accuracy going off with a hot skinny barrel.
True, 600yds is way beyond normal stalking distances but it is good practice nonetheless and having a good understanding of your drops and reading the wind, has to be a good thing, hence your only sighters are merely to confirm that your on target at the nearest distance.
As stated elsewhere, if your rifle doesn't quite meet the S-class requirements you are still welcome to shoot but your score won't be eligible.
Bisley has a restriction on bullet energy (HME) and speed is restricted to 3280fps. The following graph will help you establish if you are over.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk203/oaken488/AB4C7311-BF45-411D-AE0A-B28B2B02477C.png
Other rules and regs can be found here.
http://www.nra.org.uk/common/files/rangeoffice/range_regulations.pdf
rup
To answer a few points that have been raised.
Everyone is welcome. More people just mean booking more lanes but I need to know if you intend to shoot so I can get the booking right!
If you don't have NRA membership or a Safe Shooter Certificate, the guest day status of the club booking will enable you to shoot provided you let us know your full name and address by 20th September and are accompanied 1:1 on the firing point by a club member.
By all means build a rifle specifically for S-class but it won't give you the massive "arms race" gains that a custom "F*" build would over a "standard" rifle for those disciplines.
The S-class restrictions should put the emphasis squarely on shooter skill. I'm thinking I should be able to hold my own with my old Tikka against any custom rifle that falls within the class or even a Blaser
Lol.There are no prizes so seriously driven competitive types that choose to invest pots of gold in gear to gain any advantage in collecting trophies should look elsewhere. The winner should not be expecting anything more than a pat on the back and respect from the other competitors.
There are three reasons for keeping the round count down.....
From my point of view, getting people through the firing point quickly. From the shooters, the cost of bullets and barrel wear and lastly, accuracy going off with a hot skinny barrel.
True, 600yds is way beyond normal stalking distances but it is good practice nonetheless and having a good understanding of your drops and reading the wind, has to be a good thing, hence your only sighters are merely to confirm that your on target at the nearest distance.
As stated elsewhere, if your rifle doesn't quite meet the S-class requirements you are still welcome to shoot but your score won't be eligible.
Bisley has a restriction on bullet energy (HME) and speed is restricted to 3280fps. The following graph will help you establish if you are over.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk203/oaken488/AB4C7311-BF45-411D-AE0A-B28B2B02477C.png
Other rules and regs can be found here.
http://www.nra.org.uk/common/files/rangeoffice/range_regulations.pdf
rup
Slartibartfast
Active Member
Hi I have read the regs from the link mentioned. But still not sure what bullets are allowed. Eg is it only FMj's or are soft or hollow points welcome.
also a friend of mine has show interest but only owns rimfires, would they be allowed to use my gun?
also a friend of mine has show interest but only owns rimfires, would they be allowed to use my gun?
The tramp
Well-Known Member
4.7 Section 10(2)(b) of the 1997 Act amends section 5A(4)(b) of the 1968 Act so that the
use of expanding ammunition is in connection with the various exempted purposes. This allows, for example, a deer stalker or vermin shooter to zero with their rifle on a range or other suitable land and to do sufficient training and testing with the expanding ammunition. It does not allow them to take part in target shooting or any competitions using expanding ammunition. For this reason, the quantity of expanding ammunition or bullets for such ammunition which any shooter is allowed to possess at any one time should be carefully controlled by the certificate (see also Chapter 3). Consideration should, however, be given to each shooter’s individual circumstances, particularly where re-loaders are acquiring missiles or where the shooter is a professional deerstalker or pest controller.
From the HO guidelines.
use of expanding ammunition is in connection with the various exempted purposes. This allows, for example, a deer stalker or vermin shooter to zero with their rifle on a range or other suitable land and to do sufficient training and testing with the expanding ammunition. It does not allow them to take part in target shooting or any competitions using expanding ammunition. For this reason, the quantity of expanding ammunition or bullets for such ammunition which any shooter is allowed to possess at any one time should be carefully controlled by the certificate (see also Chapter 3). Consideration should, however, be given to each shooter’s individual circumstances, particularly where re-loaders are acquiring missiles or where the shooter is a professional deerstalker or pest controller.
From the HO guidelines.
ATTENTION please.
I have just checked the range booking details, fortunately, as they had us down for 28th August!!!
The corrected booking, 28th September, is fine for the morning but the 900yd lane in the afternoon has been changed to 1000yds as that is all that is available on Stickledown. (The longest range at the Bisley complex)
I decided on 900 for this shoot as most rifle/scope combinations can just about handle this distance, however, at 1000yds most rounds are going transonic and dropping like a stone with most field type scopes having insufficient elevation adjustment.
You may decide that you don't want to shoot at 1000yds, in which case, please let me know.
However, I will be using my old (slightly sorted) .223 .......it is possible at 1k, just a lot more challenging!
We may have to use a bit of teamwork to spot fall of shot for those unfamiliar with long range, but that may make for a more memorable experience.
I have just checked the range booking details, fortunately, as they had us down for 28th August!!!
The corrected booking, 28th September, is fine for the morning but the 900yd lane in the afternoon has been changed to 1000yds as that is all that is available on Stickledown. (The longest range at the Bisley complex)
I decided on 900 for this shoot as most rifle/scope combinations can just about handle this distance, however, at 1000yds most rounds are going transonic and dropping like a stone with most field type scopes having insufficient elevation adjustment.
You may decide that you don't want to shoot at 1000yds, in which case, please let me know.
However, I will be using my old (slightly sorted) .223 .......it is possible at 1k, just a lot more challenging!
We may have to use a bit of teamwork to spot fall of shot for those unfamiliar with long range, but that may make for a more memorable experience
.After discussion with NRA and my clubs officials, it would seem that we would be breaking the law to allow non NRA members who do not personally know me or a current member of Wessex Rifles, to shoot at Bisley under the club guest day status.
I apologise to everyone that this affects, especially as it's at such short notice. I certainly didn't see this coming and the matter only got discussed in passing after enquiring about the use of expanding ammunition.
So, if you don't have NRA membership and do not know a Wessex Rifles member, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SHOOT!
There is possibly a way around this for future shoots but we are unable to sort it at this short notice.
Again, my apologies.
Expanding ammunition can be used at Bisley if it is listed on your firearms certificate conditions for zeroing but if you don't have target condition, you cannot use it for competition, but nothing to stop you from zeroing and practice!!!
The S class format provides an ideal opportunity for zeroing and practice as every shot is marked
For the NRA guidelines on restricted bullet types and speed/energy limits at Bisley, see section 2
http://www.nra.org.uk/common/files/rangeoffice/range_regulations.pdf
No restrictions on expanding ammunition are listed. Please ensure that you comply with the energy and speed restrictions.
I will put up more information about times and where to meet/park over the weekend.
Rup
I apologise to everyone that this affects, especially as it's at such short notice. I certainly didn't see this coming and the matter only got discussed in passing after enquiring about the use of expanding ammunition.
So, if you don't have NRA membership and do not know a Wessex Rifles member, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SHOOT!
There is possibly a way around this for future shoots but we are unable to sort it at this short notice.
Again, my apologies.
Expanding ammunition can be used at Bisley if it is listed on your firearms certificate conditions for zeroing but if you don't have target condition, you cannot use it for competition, but nothing to stop you from zeroing and practice!!!
The S class format provides an ideal opportunity for zeroing and practice as every shot is marked
For the NRA guidelines on restricted bullet types and speed/energy limits at Bisley, see section 2
http://www.nra.org.uk/common/files/rangeoffice/range_regulations.pdf
No restrictions on expanding ammunition are listed. Please ensure that you comply with the energy and speed restrictions.
I will put up more information about times and where to meet/park over the weekend.
Rup
8x57
Distinguished Member
"After discussion with NRA and my clubs officials, it would seem that we would be breaking the law to allow non NRA members who do not personally know me or a current member of Wessex Rifles, to shoot at Bisley under the club guest day status."
I think that there may be some misunderstanding there Oaken. Yes that would be true if the guest does not hold a firearms certificate but guest shooters who hold firearms certificates are slightly different and most clubs (depending on constitution and insurance) can accomodate these at any time and not just on declarred open days. There are ways that you can comply even with non FAC holders if you look into it.
You also mentioned having to inform the home office of the dates on which you wish to hold one of your 12 permitted open days each year. In actual fact it is the club's chief constable you need to inform at least two working days prior to the event and not the H.O.
All the information on the rules for H.O. approved clubs this is actually in the firearms guidance to police document.
I think that there may be some misunderstanding there Oaken. Yes that would be true if the guest does not hold a firearms certificate but guest shooters who hold firearms certificates are slightly different and most clubs (depending on constitution and insurance) can accomodate these at any time and not just on declarred open days. There are ways that you can comply even with non FAC holders if you look into it.
You also mentioned having to inform the home office of the dates on which you wish to hold one of your 12 permitted open days each year. In actual fact it is the club's chief constable you need to inform at least two working days prior to the event and not the H.O.
All the information on the rules for H.O. approved clubs this is actually in the firearms guidance to police document.
Slartibartfast
Active Member
Well I am very disapointed, I was looking forward to the event. I have never shot on a range before and was hoping that this would give me an insight to what target shooting is like at very reasonable expense at the UK's best range. it would also given me an excuse to shoot at distance with my CZ .270.
so I hope for thoughts that can go, it's a great day and that things can be sorted so people like me can attend this sort of event in the future.
well done Oaken for all your efforts, i am sure most of us have come across officials not willing to help.
so I hope for thoughts that can go, it's a great day and that things can be sorted so people like me can attend this sort of event in the future.
well done Oaken for all your efforts, i am sure most of us have come across officials not willing to help.
8x57
Distinguished Member
I don't think its officials not willing to help Slartibartfast, I think it's just a little bit of confusion over the rules which hopefully can be sorted out.
It may be worth having a read through this Oaken https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...a/file/117803/approval-rifle-pistol-clubs.pdf
You will need to read it all the way through because there are a couple of sections that may appear contradictory if it's not read and understood in full. I made a mistake in my earlier posting when mentioning two working days. All the rules require is that you notify the police firearms department where the event is being held 48hrs before hand which in this case would be Surrey. Having met one of the FEO's from Surrey last June I can tell you that they are extremely helpful and should put you back on the right course.
It may be worth having a read through this Oaken https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...a/file/117803/approval-rifle-pistol-clubs.pdf
You will need to read it all the way through because there are a couple of sections that may appear contradictory if it's not read and understood in full. I made a mistake in my earlier posting when mentioning two working days. All the rules require is that you notify the police firearms department where the event is being held 48hrs before hand which in this case would be Surrey. Having met one of the FEO's from Surrey last June I can tell you that they are extremely helpful and should put you back on the right course.
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And that is one hell of a drive from Ludlow.
At the end of the day, the club chairman takes responsibility for all who shoot with the club so his word is final!
Yes it is a HO guideline that states that details of all guests that shoot with a club should be provided at least 48 hours prior to the shoot. I have said 7 days to ensure that the information does get forwarded from the shooter to me to the club chairman and on to whichever firearms dpt in good time.
Copied from our local police website:-
"Guest members must be either members of a recognised outside organisation or people who are known personally to at least one full member of that club.
Guests must be supervised on a one to one basis at all times when handling firearms and ammunition by either a full club member or someone who is a coach with a qualification recognised by the UK or National Sports Council. The club secretary must notify each guest day to the Police Firearms Licensing Department of the area in which the guest day is to take place, at least 48 hours in advance".
The "members of a recognised outside organisation" is the bit that we will be looking at with a view to enabling those that can not shoot at this event. BDS BASC etc may qualify but we would need a communication approving the intentions of the shooter. I will be looking into this for the next event though the action will need to be made by the shooter as it will be a lot of work for the club secretary.
rup
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