S-class shoot Bisley Sept 28th

[scubadog]

I have to say this is very dissapointing....having been told you can go by the op after email exchanges and managing to book the day off as free.

Its a good job I caught this thread again otherwise I would have been veryy ****ed of turning up epecting to be able to shoot as previously agreed only to then be told you cant, very diassapoitning!


The thing i dont get is that I have shot at bisley on the BSRC range recently, through SD members...how is this any different?
I have freinds that are not members of any NRA club but have been invited by rifle clubs....again I fail to se ehow it is different!

 

[8x57]

I have to say this is very dissapointing....having been told you can go by the op after email exchanges and managing to book the day off as free.

Its a good job I caught this thread again otherwise I would have been veryy ****ed of turning up epecting to be able to shoot as previously agreed only to then be told you cant, very diassapoitning!


The thing i dont get is that I have shot at bisley on the BSRC range recently, through SD members...how is this any different?
I have freinds that are not members of any NRA club but have been invited by rifle clubs....again I fail to se ehow it is different!

and you will be invited to shoot again at the H4H next year scubadog but try not to leave too much kit on the range next time when you leave because I won't forgive you the postage next time.

 

[scubadog]

and you will be invited to shoot again at the H4H next year scubadog but try not to leave too much kit on the range next time when you leave because I won't forgive you the postage next time.

Just out of interest, what is or was different that allowed non NRA members to shoot that day and not this?

 

[8x57]

Just out of interest, what is or was different that allowed non NRA members to shoot that day and not this?

The club, we were guests of the British Sporting rifle Club who very kindly hosted the event. If you recall only holders of FAC's were allowed to shoot and we all had to supply our details on a form that was available to the FEO from Surrey and who was actually acted as one of the range officers on the day and who was there to ensure that everything was run above board and in accordance with the rules. This was necessary because a few silly remarks made by a few site members on the run up to the event when in actual fact the guys concerned didn't really know what they were talking about but as usual some people get carried away when posting on websites.
The guys on the day must have behaved themselves because while not finalised and agreed yet certain members of the BSRC are working hard to try and see if we can hold the event at Bisley again in 2015.

 

[scubadog]

Thats what I dont understand.....even holders of FAC are not allowed on this one.
I am glad the BSRC was able to see a way through it.

 

[8x57]

A lot depends on the club insurance and constitution of the individual club and also sometimes rules and restrictions that club's have imposed on themselves. For instance Dalua mentioned the club that he shoots at has a rule that visiting guns can only shoot four times at the club in a year. Such a rule is not uncommon with clubs as it prevents visiting shooters from benefiting from subsidised shooting, my own club has a similar rule. However I sometimes hear club members claiming that this is the law, which it is not. There are no end of similar club rules that are often mistaken for law.

I can tell you now that club officials have a pretty hard time of ensuring that they don't fall foul of any firearms laws and other rules that apply to Home Office approved clubs. You wouldn't believe the nonsense that they have to make sense of, and that's without the unhelpfulness of the MOD, Landmark and even the NRA. So its hardly surprising if a club can't get all its ducks lined up in a row sometimes, but given sufficient time and plenty of thought there is usually a way that a club can make arrangements for most folk to shoot with the club be they FAC holders or even on occasion those that don't even hold a firearms certificate. It's hardly surprising though that some club officials are risk averse and tend to play safe as after all they are the ones held accountable in law.

 

[Oaken]

Thanks 8x57, good explanation. You have obviously been there!
I was led to believe that a club that hosts a guest day is able to invite anyone, even non Fac holders, to shoot with 1:1 supervision. It seems that this is not the case, a guest day is for inviting those known to club members ie. friends and family. This is a serious oversimplification and I know that other clubs have invited openly regardless using their guest days . Available information is ambiguous and would seem to be interpreted differently by various clubs and authorities.
The firearms manager at NRA advised against an open invitation. No suggestion was made for alternatives so please understand that the club wishes to stay within the law and until such time as we can establish a bulletproof way to invite everyone we will be sticking with people known and vouched for by club members and of course, full NRA members can shoot regardless.


I am sorry if this has inconvenienced anyone, it was made clear on all the forums as soon as doubt was raised. Also bear in mind that no money has been taken yet and the club will probably make a loss on this event as there is no guarantee that anyone will turn up.
Kicking the toys out helps no one!


Looking forward to meeting old friends and fellow NRA members on Sunday.
Rup

 

[Oaken]

Please be on the firing point no later than 08:00 for range briefing, sqadding and paperwork.
Firing will start at 8:30 on Century Range - lanes 19/20 (tbc). I an unable to access the booking system to check the lane numbers so go with 19/20 for now
All rifles must be bagged with magazines and BOLTS REMOVED and placed well back from the firing point. If you have breach flags, please use them. "Be seen to be safe" with muzzle awareness being an absolute priority.
Hearing protection is mandatory.
We will be starting on lanes 19 & 20 at 300yds. Falling back to 500 & then 600. Be ready to shoot when your name is called, we need to keep things moving at all times - time is limited.


Postcode for Bisley is GU24 0PB
Follow the road through the grounds, take right turn between range office and Fultons gunshop. Turn right at end then left into the car park next to Century range.


On the firing point you will be called to "make ready" before the previous shooter has finished firing.
Please remove your gear quickly once the range officer has cleared your rifle.
You may then proceed to the next range back at 500 yards.


1000yds pm will be much more relaxed with time for calling and spotting shots etc.


Rup

 

[scubadog]

Thanks 8x57, good explanation. You have obviously been there!
I was led to believe that a club that hosts a guest day is able to invite anyone, even non Fac holders, to shoot with 1:1 supervision. It seems that this is not the case, a guest day is for inviting those known to club members ie. friends and family. This is a serious oversimplification and I know that other clubs have invited openly regardless using their guest days . Available information is ambiguous and would seem to be interpreted differently by various clubs and authorities.
The firearms manager at NRA advised against an open invitation. No suggestion was made for alternatives so please understand that the club wishes to stay within the law and until such time as we can establish a bulletproof way to invite everyone we will be sticking with people known and vouched for by club members and of course, full NRA members can shoot regardless.


I am sorry if this has inconvenienced anyone, it was made clear on all the forums as soon as doubt was raised. Also bear in mind that no money has been taken yet and the club will probably make a loss on this event as there is no guarantee that anyone will turn up.
Kicking the toys out helps no one!


Looking forward to meeting old friends and fellow NRA members on Sunday.
Rup

Money may not have exchanged hands to you, but it has between others.
FMJ Ammo bought specifically for the day YOU confirmed in person that people could attend.
Days of leave booked of work somone organised to look after animals for the day ect ect.

So dont moan about people "throwing toys" when its your own mess up that has caused the hassle!
I still fail to see how other clubs manage to have invite days and yours doesnt, but id thats the way you want it then thats fine, but dont bitch about people being annoyed by the inconvinience your incompetence caused.

 

[Tiff]

I still fail to see how other clubs manage to have invite days and yours doesnt, but id thats the way you want it then thats fine, but dont bitch about people being annoyed by the inconvinience your incompetence caused.

Here's an idea, instead of getting stroppy on the internet at a chap trying his hardest to promote more legal shooting opportunities... Why not ask the 'other clubs' you refer to, how they have managed to legally bypass the rules and hold 'open days' eligible to people not known to a rifle club member, or indeed that do not come from a single body/organisation (i.e Scouts).

Not only would you then have been able to attend, but so would many other people in your situation. It would also help the vast majority of other rifle clubs that are bound by the 12 guest days a year rule and do not have knowledge of this 'loophole' you refer to.

 

[The tramp]

Here's an idea, instead of getting stroppy on the internet at a chap trying his hardest to promote more legal shooting opportunities... Why not ask the 'other clubs' you refer to, how they have managed to legally bypass the rules and hold 'open days' eligible to people not known to a rifle club member, or indeed that do not come from a single body/organisation (i.e Scouts).

Not only would you then have been able to attend, but so would many other people in your situation. It would also help the vast majority of other rifle clubs that are bound by the 12 guest days a year rule and do not have knowledge of this 'loophole' you refer to.

Here here tiff. Well said old chap. It's also internet warriors who make the effort so much harder, and reduce the drive to do more stuff like this.

Rules is rules, and sometimes they pop up and bite you in the ass. That's life, suck it up cupcake x

 

[Bandit Country]

Here here tiff. Well said old chap. It's also internet warriors who make the effort so much harder, and reduce the drive to do more stuff like this.

Rules is rules, and sometimes they pop up and bite you in the ass. That's life, suck it up cupcake x

Not terribly constructive eh? While full marks go to the OP for making an effort to get folk out on the range, if you read the post it does say "All are welcome". From the thread it's obvious that some dialogue took place which confirmed Scubadog could shoot. Having made arrangements to do so, to then be told "Oops no you can't!" is going to be just a tad annoying. Rather like being deployed to Cyprus with what remains of our once mighty air force, flying over all them bad boys and then NOT actually getting to drop any bombs.... at least the crabs can top up their tans at the taxpayer's expense.

Surely it's not too much to expect that the organiser has all his ducks in a row - including the nod from the club Chairman - before making the invite? Every day's a school day.....

 

[ndt man]

i hope it works out better for the event next time . as for some to say this club or that club held this event and all the shooters where not known to each other is not the point its all about the rules. oaken did his best to get this event off the ground and i take my hat off to him for that .

 

[Klenchblaize]

Thank God I only have to turn up at Open Days and help some young blond shoot a HPS with her first shots fired from a rifle.

K

 

[kennyc]

bugger all this it was a damn good day out

 

[c18rch]

Yet again, only on this forum did anyone complain. All the other forums on which it was advertised took the news graciously and made comments to the effect of I’m very sorry to hear that and look forward to shooting when it is sorted. Not here. There is something seriously wrong with the mentality of certain members of this forum that make them want to stick their opinion in regardless of its relevance or value . If it is not constructive then keep it to yourself but for g0d sake don’t keep whining on like a little b!tch.

Money may not have exchanged hands to you, but it has between others.
FMJ Ammo bought specifically for the day YOU confirmed in person that people could attend.
Days of leave booked of work somone organised to look after animals for the day ect ect.

So dont moan about people "throwing toys" when its your own mess up that has caused the hassle!
I still fail to see how other clubs manage to have invite days and yours doesnt, but id thats the way you want it then thats fine, but dont b!tch about people being annoyed by the inconvinience your incompetence caused.

Why don’t you try to organise your own event if you think you can do better rather than belittling someone who has tried and succeeded to do so. It may not have gone exactly the way we had hoped and the intention for the next one is that EVERYONE will be welcome. Unfortunately in the time we had available we could not get it resolved. I don't think any of us were b!tching about anything I believe you started that when we tried to explain the reasoning.

As I said before:

If you have any constructive criticism, it will be taken on-board and changes made if it will improve or make the day more enjoyable but also maintaining the ethos of the event.

If you just want to be a keyboard warrior and have no intention of participating and just want to pick holes in everything, keep your opinions to yourself.

If anyone does know of a way that we can legally invite anyone then please let us know.

Getting back to civilised conversation.

It was a great days shooting with some great results from everyone who participated. Amazing what a stalking rifle is capable of. Great comp Rup, I look forward to the next one.

Rich

 

[lister]

that is the point u can legally invite an fac holder to shoot at your club

 

[8x57]

that is the point u can legally invite an fac holder to shoot at your club

Yes you can but only if the club is set up for it which will depend on the club's rules, constitution and insurance arrangements. In this case all the correct arrangements may not have been in place and the NRA certainly didn't seem to help the matter from what I understand of what has already been said.

The rifle club that I belong to has allowed for this and estimates the number of shooting guests (FAC holders) that we may accommodate each year and pays an appropriate insurance premium to cover them. Not all clubs do this and in some cases they actively discourage visiting shooters for reasons of their own. We also host a number of "guest days" when others who do not hold a firearms certificate may shoot, once again appropriate insurance is in place and in this case the police are given at least two days notice and on many occasions a list of names and addresses is also supplied to the police.

 

[scubadog]

Yet again, only on this forum did anyone complain. All the other forums on which it was advertised took the news graciously and made comments to the effect of I’m very sorry to hear that and look forward to shooting when it is sorted. Not here. There is something seriously wrong with the mentality of certain members of this forum that make them want to stick their opinion in regardless of its relevance or value . If it is not constructive then keep it to yourself but for g0d sake don’t keep whining on like a little b!tch.



Why don’t you try to organise your own event if you think you can do better rather than belittling someone who has tried and succeeded to do so. It may not have gone exactly the way we had hoped and the intention for the next one is that EVERYONE will be welcome. Unfortunately in the time we had available we could not get it resolved. I don't think any of us were b!tching about anything I believe you started that when we tried to explain the reasoning.

As I said before:



If anyone does know of a way that we can legally invite anyone then please let us know.

Getting back to civilised conversation.

It was a great days shooting with some great results from everyone who participated. Amazing what a stalking rifle is capable of. Great comp Rup, I look forward to the next one.

Rich

Okay here is my constructive comments.

*Dont invite a forum to shoot with your club IF your club isnt set up to do it...blah blah blah.
*Check with your club first if it is within the rules...blah blah blah.
*Check you understand the rules yourself!
*Dont then confirm that those people can shoot on the day over a series of emails blah blah blah.
*Remember to notify those people in good time when you realise you messed up so that they can cancel the arangements they have put in place.



Now then as fo c18 where is your constructive comments?? Perhaps you should listen to your own advice. All you are ding is bitching about things you dont know the circumstances about. I was happy to let this go after my last post but you feel the need to bring it back up again!

How would you feel if you booked leave, arranged a child minder ect ect only to be let down at the last minute by someones cock up on what appears to be soething rather fundamental? It has cost me annual leave and money.


Perhaps if you cannot read basic club rules then you shouldnt even posess a ticket??
Many other clubs anage guest days for ticket holders quite easily.
Some how you managed to cock it right up.....at the expense of everyone else.
Thank you.

 

[The tramp]

Okay here is my constructive comments.

*Dont invite a forum to shoot with your club IF your club isnt set up to do it...blah blah blah.
*Check with your club first if it is within the rules...blah blah blah.
*Check you understand the rules yourself!
*Dont then confirm that those people can shoot on the day over a series of emails blah blah blah.
*Remember to notify those people in good time when you realise you messed up so that they can cancel the arangements they have put in place.



Now then as fo c18 where is your constructive comments?? Perhaps you should listen to your own advice. All you are ding is bitching about things you dont know the circumstances about. I was happy to let this go after my last post but you feel the need to bring it back up again!

How would you feel if you booked leave, arranged a child minder ect ect only to be let down at the last minute by someones cock up on what appears to be soething rather fundamental? It has cost me annual leave and money.


Perhaps if you cannot read basic club rules then you shouldnt even posess a ticket??
Many other clubs anage guest days for ticket holders quite easily.
Some how you managed to cock it right up.....at the expense of everyone else.
Thank you.

Ok, here's mine too.

Accept that s**t happens sometimes, because it does.

Stop going on about it, because it's wearing thin and getting very boring.

Rup has done a lot more for the shooting community than a hell of a lot of others, if you continue to keep bleating on about it, do you think it will encourage him to do more, or just say 'feck it!' ?

Or, would you prefer if he just went ahead and ignored advise that

'everybody involved could potentially get arrested and have guns confiscated' , and s**t to then hit the fan, and everybody get arrested, and lose guns ? He was making sure all loose ends were tied, can you blame him ? I can't.