Becoming an A/W

[KSDC]

Becoming an A/W

Looking back over a previous thread where sikamalc stated

I wouldn’t say I am in complete agreement with your comments regarding Level 2, but I do appreciate where you are coming from.
I am well aware of some AW people who should not in my opinion be an AW, i even know of some who have only been stalking 5 minutes and become an AWm to the point where i know of 2 who shot their first deer with me a few years back and have
become an AW.

I have been thinking of doing level 2 for the sole purpose of becoming an AW so I can offer the service to our clients, I have been very fortunate in having Robin as a friend and mentor for the last few years and enjoy taking clients stalking especially those looking for their first deer


My question is, how long do you need to be stalking before you are up to the job,

To my way of thinking shooting a deer is no more difficult than shooting foxes
or stalking across a field to shoot a rabbit with an air rifle, and once you know how to gralloch and examine the carcass to make sure it is suitable to go into the food chain
what else would you need to know,

I see no reason why a keen stalker who has passed his dsc1 then gone on to do his level 2 should not make a good A/W as the knowledge gained is fresh in his memory.

Maybe I am missing something what do the forum members think?

Cheers Geoff

 

[RuralLondoner]

Sticking my neck out here but I agree.

I have a lifetime of experience in fieldsports and the countryside but have pretty much rattled through the DSC system and hope to be an AW later this year.

I'm passionate, I have no ingrained bad habits and I want to promote the safe, humane and sustainable management of deer.

I've been independently assessed as having these qualities and as having the required knowledge set. I think that should be good enough.

My view in general (in my day job as well as deer stalking) is that time-served is a poor measure of capability.

That said, experience brings with it lots of knowledge that should be shared where possible.

But the right answer has to be an independent assessment of someone's knowledge and capability. Wether the current DMQ system provides that - I think is for others to answer but, for what it's worth, I think it's all heading in the right direction.

J

 

[sir-lamp-alot]

if you want to be a a/w and feel you have whats needed to be a a/w then go for it, ive seen and shot with a/w who i wouldnt trust with a catapult let alone a rifle and from that day on ive never and will never shot with them again but thats life not everyone who deserves the job always gets it and somtimes those people who are sat quite in the corner saying nothing actualy have the most to say and to give

 

[unicorn71]

I believe that AW'S should have
1.Experience of all species of deer , assessing a gralloch on a Muntie is very different to a large red.
2.Enough practical deer experience of all species to recognise unusual behaviour.
3.The future of stalking in mind rather than their wallet.
4.Access to wild deer whether on the candidates ground or their own-parks not included.

 

[sikamalc]

Shooting foxes is no different to shooting a deer !!!
That just about adds up why people should be experienced in deer stalking if they want to take paying guests out. How many different species of fox are there in the uk then Geof ?

Equating all the different species of deer and managing to identify them and managing them is something that has no bearing on shooting a fox most of which are shot under a lamp at night I would imagine.

I shall finish now as I have ckients to attend to and 4 Cwd to cape off.

 

[2130martin]

Becoming an A/W

Looking back over a previous thread where sikamalc stated

I wouldn’t say I am in complete agreement with your comments regarding Level 2, but I do appreciate where you are coming from.
I am well aware of some AW people who should not in my opinion be an AW, i even know of some who have only been stalking 5 minutes and become an AWm to the point where i know of 2 who shot their first deer with me a few years back and have
become an AW.

I have been thinking of doing level 2 for the sole purpose of becoming an AW so I can offer the service to our clients, I have been very fortunate in having Robin as a friend and mentor for the last few years and enjoy taking clients stalking especially those looking for their first deer


My question is, how long do you need to be stalking before you are up to the job,

To my way of thinking shooting a deer is no more difficult than shooting foxes
or stalking across a field to shoot a rabbit with an air rifle, and once you know how to gralloch and examine the carcass to make sure it is suitable to go into the food chain
what else would you need to know,

I see no reason why a keen stalker who has passed his dsc1 then gone on to do his level 2 should not make a good A/W as the knowledge gained is fresh in his memory.

Maybe I am missing something what do the forum members think?

Cheers Geoff

I agree with you,crack on!!

 

[KSDC]

Hi Malc

Well done on your four CWD Good to hear you are keeping the client happy, I don’t think you read my post,
I said that in my opinion shooting a deer is no more difficult than shooting a fox
I did not say it was no different, but just because a fox is classed as vermin it should be shown just as much respect as a deer, and in my limited experience I have found foxers often take to stalking like ducks to water,

Thanks for your input and taking time to reply to my thread, Cheers Geoff

 

[long_range_rob]

Shooting foxes is no different to shooting a deer !!!

Except I prefer to shoot foxes length ways

 

[willie_gunn]

I believe that AW'S should have
1.Experience of all species of deer , assessing a gralloch on a Muntie is very different to a large red.
2.Enough practical deer experience of all species to recognise unusual behaviour.

Oh please!!

I live and stalk in Berkshire and Oxfordshire. Why on earth should I need experience of shooting red deer on the Hill to become an AW? Is it going to help when I witness someone shooting muntjac, roe or fallow in deepest, darkest Home Counties? What about all those stalkers in Scotland who what to become AW's? Do they have to travel South to study and shoot CWD and muntjac, when they are unlikely to ever see them North of the Border?

In case its escaped people's attention, being an AW is not a full-time salaried profession. Most do it because they want to put something back onto the sport. Follow these type of suggestions and it will be a rare, select and expensive few who can become AW's. Being an AW isn't about having a doctorate in deer or helping you to become a veterinary surgeon, it's about witnessing a candidate to make sure they can "demonstrate their knowledge and competence in legally, safely and humanely culling deer and dealing with carcasses hygienically".

The next logical step in your argument is to say you shouldn't be awarded your DSC2 unless you've been witnessed stalking all six native deer species as well.

 

[sikamalc]

shooting foxes and calling one in is nothing to do with deer management and stalking. Every species of deer are different, every time of year throws up new challenges. As i think i may have mentioned before extracting a Red Stag off the hill has no comparison to extracting a Muntjac out of a wood, or a Fallow doe off your ground. Also if you guide enough and are an AW you should also have a deer dog or have access to one.
Many may not agree to my point of view, but honestly, I dont care.

Good luck with your level 2.

 

[Cootmeurer]

Do you gralloch a fox? Do you care where the round goes in a fox? Gut shot and dead or brain shot and dead, no difference - right? Do you check a fox for followers? Does it matter if they are pregnant or not?

How does that compare to a deer?

 

[teyhan1]

Perhaps the AW list should have what species the AW is experienced in? After all not all areas have all species.
Then again the assessment is not about the species, that's DSC1.

With regards to 'how long' before you come an AW. Let me just say, I wouldn't have much faith in a 21yr old driving instructor.

 

[unicorn71]

Oh please!!

I live and stalk in Berkshire and Oxfordshire. Why on earth should I need experience of shooting red deer on the Hill to become an AW? Is it going to help when I witness someone shooting muntjac, roe or fallow in deepest, darkest Home Counties? What about all those stalkers in Scotland who what to become AW's? Do they have to travel South to study and shoot CWD and muntjac, when they are unlikely to ever see them North of the Border?

In case its escaped people's attention, being an AW is not a full-time salaried profession. Most do it because they want to put something back onto the sport. Follow these type of suggestions and it will be a rare, select and expensive few who can become AW's. Being an AW isn't about having a doctorate in deer or helping you to become a veterinary surgeon, it's about witnessing a candidate to make sure they can "demonstrate their knowledge and competence in legally, safely and humanely culling deer and dealing with carcasses hygienically".

The next logical step in your argument is to say you shouldn't be awarded your DSC2 unless you've been witnessed stalking all six native deer species as well.

Ok maybe i was going a bit far but do people really want a AW witnessing level 2 stalks on their own 100 acre fenced deer park ?

 

[FGYT]

aninteresting point

Dorset are now saying DSC2 is the only path to an open ticket before the 5yr renewal

basically making AWs the responsible check on a shooters ability to safely stalk alone on any land (Yes I know the police and every body will say its not )
so a person fires however many min rnds it takes to pass DSC1 on a range over a long weekend next week you sign of on 3 deer stalks and the FEO signs off an open ticket on that Cert you issue (very quick i know but as far as i can see actually possible ) and i know they havent asked DMQ etc if that is alright

 

[KSDC]

Well as Malc said an A/W should have a deer dog or at least have the use of one, well i am lucky in that respect, my old cocker has improved with age he has not had any training but he happily follows a blood trail, keeps in close when stalking and will sit in the quad box and guard it all day.
so i am off to a good start

 

[Fabnosh]

When I did my level 2 I specifically used 3 different AW's - it was a personal thing but I wanted it that way. Of the three I used, one was 59, one was 27 and the last was 46. I'm 53 so that'll give you a gauge. Of the AW's without doubt the most knowledgeable was the 27 year old. He was skilled, precise, informed and his knowledge of both deer, their environment and the interrelation between the two quite exceptional. By contrast the 59 year old - who had been stalking for 4 decades lacked everything that that level of experience should have offered. He was pathetic. The 46 year old was skilled and excellent but the youngster got my vote.

I guess the point I'm making is that skill doesn't always come with years.

My tuppence worth.

FN

 

[2130martin]

Perhaps the AW list should have what species the AW is experienced in? After all not all areas have all species.
Then again the assessment is not about the species, that's DSC1.

With regards to 'how long' before you come an AW. Let me just say, I wouldn't have much faith in a 21yr old driving instructor.

Why do you say that???...what has age got to do with it?or indeed experience???....qualified is qualified isnt it??

 

[JH83]

There are far too many people out there looking to make a quick buck! I know of people who have been stalking for 12 months or less and feel inclined towards becoming an AW which is ridiculous, and quite obviously those people are out for quick profit with no chance of longevity. These types are likely to be responsible for the horror stories you hear of where a candidate takes many outings and thousands of £ to pass.

There is no real answer to the question, but to me a AW should be more experienced than the vast majority of their clients, and in a position to get them their 3 kills within a reasonable number of outings, realistically this should potentially be achievable in a day.

To contextualise my opinion on this I have been stalking over a decade, go stalking most weeks, and wouldn't dream of becoming a AW.

 

[jcampbellsmith]

....To contextualise my opinion on this I have been stalking over a decade, go stalking most weeks, and wouldn't dream of becoming a AW.

James. I'm not sure what contextualise means, but I do think you could easily be an AW. Don't sell yourself short. Any application to be an AW is to be welcomed. Have a read here near the bottom and apply - DMQ Setting the standard for wild deer management

Regards JCS

 

[rick6point5]

'I have forgotten more than you will ever know'...could be age related!