bewsher500
Well-Known Member
I ran out of space!! and will!!
Explain for an Outsider - election outcome
- Thread starter Cootmeurer
- Start date
I ran out of space!! and will!!
I voted against the AV system as it wasn't a true PR system, but I think this election result almost demands that the electoral system be re-examined and adjusted to make things fairer.
A boundary commission review for a start, the gerrymandering by the Blair regime ought to be corrected as a minimum - glad to see it didn't win them this election, it just shows how pathetic the two Eds were.
Scotland is way over-represented, the country has at least twice the numbers of MP's that it ought to.
UKIP & The Greens are way under-represented.
PR isn't perfect, look at Belgium, but a system akin to Germany might work ok, FPTP clearly isn't truly democratic.
A boundary commission review for a start, the gerrymandering by the Blair regime ought to be corrected as a minimum - glad to see it didn't win them this election, it just shows how pathetic the two Eds were.
Scotland is way over-represented, the country has at least twice the numbers of MP's that it ought to.
UKIP & The Greens are way under-represented.
PR isn't perfect, look at Belgium, but a system akin to Germany might work ok, FPTP clearly isn't truly democratic.
scrumbag
Well-Known Member
I will be very keen to see how keep he Lib Dem's to promote PR given how trashed they got on voter percentage vs UKIP....
And they could do with sorting the Welsh constituencies out as well...
The outcome in Scotland is that the SNP has all but swept the board.
They are Nationalist by constitution and Socialist by policy.
That means that National Socialism is alive and well in Scotland.
They are Nationalist by constitution and Socialist by policy.
That means that National Socialism is alive and well in Scotland.
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
Now that's just ridiculous. Scottish nationalism is really quite a unique thing in that it's not defined by ethnicity or anything like that, just by a geographical location. For all their faults, the SNP don't define Scottishness by excluding people. So a decent play on words, but the statement is absurd.
Excuse me PM but I live in Scotland and am quite in touch with what is going on.
They are Nationalist, they are Socialist, ergo...
One of their policies...
Legal fight starts over SNP 'state guardian for every child' - Telegraph
Would You be ok with Your kids school and medical records being passed to a Government nominated stranger to you ?.
ps...re ethnicity, I don't think you are aware of the anti-English feeling that is on the rise here.
I have English friends here, they're aware alright.
The snp deny it though...so it doesn't exist
They are Nationalist, they are Socialist, ergo...
One of their policies...
Legal fight starts over SNP 'state guardian for every child' - Telegraph
Would You be ok with Your kids school and medical records being passed to a Government nominated stranger to you ?.
ps...re ethnicity, I don't think you are aware of the anti-English feeling that is on the rise here.
I have English friends here, they're aware alright.
The snp deny it though...so it doesn't exist
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scrumbag
Well-Known Member
Yes, needs doing though...
Try telling my neighbour that!! Born and brought up in Scotland, his family farms in Scotland, but excluded from the Referendum vote because he's deemed "not Scottish enough" as he lives in the South.
They simply don't like anyone who doesn't agree with their version of "the truth", and would happily see them excluded, viz: Edinburgh SNP candidate Neil Hay in row over Quisling comment | UK | News | Daily Express
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Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
Fair enough, I just meant that to say that the SNP are Nazis is ridiculous.
Their use of the term "Quisling" is more than a little unfortunate then, given the connection.
Totally agree but they’ll be the ones left beneath the EU drawbridge once raised. I shouldn’t worry though as I’m reliably informed that with suitable treatment vigorous new growth will once again range across the sunlit Uplands of this wee Isle.
There might even be room for a little more compassionate liberalism in the electorate.
K
Not so ridiculous when you live here and know their language and modus operandi.
Those who act in that way are liable to be labelled that way by folk who know them, plausible as they may seem to others.
As pointed out above, folk are being called "Quisling" and "traitor" around here just because they don't agree with the snp.
The snp are Not Scotland.
Check post #29 on this thread... Compulsory Voting ?
As a Scot I have to agree with you, never came across any racism in Scotland first hand, I am sure that it does exist though definitely not a major issue as Scots as a Nation are welcoming to most regardless of colour or creed.
Yes the SNP is a socialist party is that any wonder Scotland is predominantly a socialist country, we are a small country of just over 5 million 3.7 million live in the central belt which was where all the heavy industry was these
people were predominantly socialist , though the industry has all gone people don't change overnight they still think of themselves as working class, even younger generations tend to vote as their fathers and grandfathers did.
There is support for the Tory and Lib Dems in the more rural parts of Scotland but not enough to make any real
difference, Tory policy is so far removed for the average Scot in the streets thinking to not even warrant consideration,again the Lib Dems are not serious contenders, as far as Scotland is concerned its a two horse race SNP or Labour and labour has fallen out of favour at least for the time being.
There is a mood for change in Scotland people are tired of the same old,same old I am sure many that voted SNP
this time are not Nationalists as such but believe that having SNP representatives at Westminster is the best way of serving The people of Scotland's interests.
Its true that the SNP have performed well in local government,and while I find much that they do attractive I am equally horrified by some of their policies.
Yes the SNP is a socialist party is that any wonder Scotland is predominantly a socialist country, we are a small country of just over 5 million 3.7 million live in the central belt which was where all the heavy industry was these
people were predominantly socialist , though the industry has all gone people don't change overnight they still think of themselves as working class, even younger generations tend to vote as their fathers and grandfathers did.
There is support for the Tory and Lib Dems in the more rural parts of Scotland but not enough to make any real
difference, Tory policy is so far removed for the average Scot in the streets thinking to not even warrant consideration,again the Lib Dems are not serious contenders, as far as Scotland is concerned its a two horse race SNP or Labour and labour has fallen out of favour at least for the time being.
There is a mood for change in Scotland people are tired of the same old,same old I am sure many that voted SNP
this time are not Nationalists as such but believe that having SNP representatives at Westminster is the best way of serving The people of Scotland's interests.
Its true that the SNP have performed well in local government,and while I find much that they do attractive I am equally horrified by some of their policies.
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
I hope so. The world doesn't really seem to be going my way at the moment. The general mood appears to be growing harsher, defensive, insular. That's not just in the UK. I don't expect the 2017 French elections to be very heartwarming either.
My experience of SNP supporters is very mixed.
There are plenty (especially more recent supporters, who have been swept up by the anti-westminster, anti-status quo momentum) who are progressive, cosmopolitan, open minded and outward looking. Whose perspective and ideology I would call essentially liberal/modern left of centre/ standard European social democratic. Sturgeon has done a superb job at appearing to fit this mould.
However, there are also quite a few who are much more agressive and explicitly xenophobic, inward looking and isolationist. Economically, they are old fashioned hard left (essentially pre-1997 Labour). Socially, they are often very right wing. While they aren't 'racist' as such, that is really only because there aren't very many minorities in Scotland. However they are vocally and virulently anti-English - in ways that, were you to replace the word 'English' with 'black', 'Asian' or 'gay' would be deemed utterly unnaceptable. They are as anti-Europe and anti immigrant as UKIP (possibly more so). I have on quite a few ocassions been told that I shouldn't really have the right to vote here, that my wife (Dutch) should just f*ck off back to Dutchland and eat cheese, and that come indepedence, they'd look forward to me running back South of the border.
The SNP have done a very good job of appearing to be the rebellious centre-left alternative. I'm not at all convinced this is true.
There are plenty (especially more recent supporters, who have been swept up by the anti-westminster, anti-status quo momentum) who are progressive, cosmopolitan, open minded and outward looking. Whose perspective and ideology I would call essentially liberal/modern left of centre/ standard European social democratic. Sturgeon has done a superb job at appearing to fit this mould.
However, there are also quite a few who are much more agressive and explicitly xenophobic, inward looking and isolationist. Economically, they are old fashioned hard left (essentially pre-1997 Labour). Socially, they are often very right wing. While they aren't 'racist' as such, that is really only because there aren't very many minorities in Scotland. However they are vocally and virulently anti-English - in ways that, were you to replace the word 'English' with 'black', 'Asian' or 'gay' would be deemed utterly unnaceptable. They are as anti-Europe and anti immigrant as UKIP (possibly more so). I have on quite a few ocassions been told that I shouldn't really have the right to vote here, that my wife (Dutch) should just f*ck off back to Dutchland and eat cheese, and that come indepedence, they'd look forward to me running back South of the border.
The SNP have done a very good job of appearing to be the rebellious centre-left alternative. I'm not at all convinced this is true.
Boggy, yes and no re socialism in Scotland. This is an interesting article...
Middle class obscured in a Scots myth - BBC News
I agree re the mood for change, given the results its pretty obvious
.Also agree re done well in local government.
But, and it's a big but..I really don't think the snp wake up in the morning and say "what's best for Scotland today".
No, they say, "what's the best way to enhance our chances of Indy".
You've only got to look and see how they strangle things that could improve folks lot in life...so they can blame Westminster.
What about the 8 year freeze on council tax?
Their version of serving the people of Scotland's interests is to achieve Indy.
The question to that is Yes or No and I thought that that question had been answered last September.
But I have been told by an snp member......."thats all history"
Boggy, yes and no re socialism in Scotland. This is an interesting article...
Middle class obscured in a Scots myth - BBC News
I agree re the mood for change, given the results its pretty obvious
Also agree re done well in local government.
But, and it's a big but..I really don't think the snp wake up in the morning and say "what's best for Scotland today".
No, they say, "what's the best way to enhance our chances of Indy".
You've only got to look and see how they strangle things that could improve folks lot in life...so they can blame Westminster.
What about the 8 year freeze on council tax?
Their version of serving the people of Scotland's interests is to achieve Indy.
The question to that is Yes or No and I thought that that question had been answered last September.
But I have been told by an snp member......."thats all history"
I have no doubt their ultimate aim is independence , but as you say that question was clearly answered in September, Ms Sturgeon is on record as saying there will only be another referendum when the people of Scotland
want one,and I don't think there is the appetite for another at the present time.
I am sure that it will arise again but think it will be some way off I doubt very much if it will happen again in my lifetime.
In England you will see the rich get richer and the working class get poorer (guess which group I'm in)
In Scotland they've got what they wanted.
So I am volunteering to help build that big wall that once separated two countries.
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