£500 for your FAC !

[DVS1]

At the crux of all this is the 'human' factor.

You can design, implement, and enforce as many guidelines or processes to reduce the 'risk' of a firearm being used in an inappropriate way, being stolen, and the competency of the user.

However it can all go wrong in a nano second due to the human element.

A loved ones passing that leads to mental health issues unseen/unknown by a GP etc, anger & argument. Such instances like these can never be effectively catered for 24/7. Anything can happen at anytime and as much as the process filters as much as it can NO system will ever be foolproof to prevent these tragic incidents.

Sounds like a good way to do 2 things -

1 - Trying to force fac holders to quit by raising licensing fees to astronomical levels

2 - Fund raiser so they can give themselves a pay rise!

 

[Woodenbeam]

I skipped straight to the last posting after seeing the word ‘stakeholder/s’ - in most circumstances this usually results in greater expense & a poorer service provided. The license system should be an affordable, centrally funded scheme. I believe everyone should have the right to hold a shotgun license, should there be a reason not to grant fair enough but as everyone is allowed the choice is there hence centrally funded - if fees become extortionate then this would no longer be the case.

 

[JockStalk]

When I read ‘aligning’ shotgun and firearms licenses, I don’t presume they mean removing the good reason requirements for firearms.
Just the next freedom to be removed in Jockistan.

 

[timbrayford]

Personally 2 large calibres, 1 rimfire and 4 shotguns are plenty enough bang tubes!

I cant see why people need a full so many guns, thats would ease things up a tad

Oh no not the dreaded "N" word again!

 

[zambezi]

Other than a total ban of all ownership of firearms the risk however small will always remain

Most gun crime is committed with already banned [or otherwise illegally held] firearms.

A total ban of legal firearm ownership will never equate to zero gun crime.

 

[Stalker62]

Personally 2 large calibres, 1 rimfire and 4 shotguns are plenty...

I cant see why people need a full (sic) so many guns,...

A rather deer (insert AOLQ that suits) centric view, if you do not mind my saying so.

Plenty of folk out there with 'collections' of firearms - historic/military/type.

Some folk also, Hunt/Stalk/Target/Collect/Reload - so their 'need' is a real, as (perhaps) yours.

 

[timbrayford]

Most gun crime is committed with already banned [or otherwise illegally held] firearms.

A total ban of legal firearm ownership will never equate to zero gun crime.

The handgun restrictions prove that beyond any doubt, disarming the law abiding makes no impact on armed crime

 

[timbrayford]

A rather deer (insert AOLQ that suits) centric view, if you do not mind my saying so.

Plenty of folk out there with 'collections' of firearms - historic/military/type.

Some folk also, Hunt/Stalk/Target/Collect/Reload - so their 'need' is a real, as (perhaps) yours.

Surely you mean "Good reason"

 

[Dave Lakes]

Most gun crime is committed with already banned [or otherwise illegally held] firearms.

A total ban of legal firearm ownership will never equate to zero gun crime.

Someone posted a link to the ONS stats earlier so I had a look. The vast majority are committed with handguns (already mostly illegal), imitation firearms (not really the preserve of licence holders), air weapons (no ticket required), and CS spray (already illegal). Shotguns to be fair was a decent chunk, but see below.

So basically almost all gun crime is outside of the scope of what FAC/SGC covers anyway. Of the minute proportion that was from firearms which might be used for stalking/pest control/sport etc, it didn’t give any breakdown of what percentage were committed with legally held firearms. Of the proportion that are (no way of knowing), this would also include any incident where someone accidentally shot a gillie for example, so while terrible and technically some sort of crime, again will not be affected by any changes to firearms licensing in the same way that people will accidentally break the legs of fellow players in football from time to time.

 

[Liveonce]

Most gun crime is committed with already banned [or otherwise illegally held] firearms.

A total ban of legal firearm ownership will never equate to zero gun crime.

indeed.

 

[Liveonce]

Someone posted a link to the ONS stats earlier so I had a look. The vast majority are committed with handguns (already mostly illegal), imitation firearms (not really the preserve of licence holders), air weapons (no ticket required), and CS spray (already illegal). Shotguns to be fair was a decent chunk, but see below.

So basically almost all gun crime is outside of the scope of what FAC/SGC covers anyway. Of the minute proportion that was from firearms which might be used for stalking/pest control/sport etc, it didn’t give any breakdown of what percentage were committed with legally held firearms. Of the proportion that are (no way of knowing), this would also include any incident where someone accidentally shot a gillie for example, so while terrible and technically some sort of crime, again will not be affected by any changes to firearms licensing in the same way that people will accidentally break the legs of fellow players in football from time to time.

This is Scotland so a ticket is required for airguns.

 

[Taff]

We are having the same debate here in NZ, apparently it costs us here about $1500 a day to employ a firearms officer ( not a sworn police officer ) to stand at a door at gun show, obviously I applied for the job.
NZ is awash with illegal guns, crime rates are rising daily, but the only thing the police come up with is tighter checks for gun owners and higher license prices.
Just so you understand NZ mentality if you are a gang member ( head hunter ) and caught with illegally held ammo ( they did not find the gun) $1,000,000 in cash , assets in the $000,000 and never held a job, you get home detention for 6 months.

 

[Dave Lakes]

This is Scotland so a ticket is required for airguns.

Yeah but they’re not talking about changing the conditions or fees for the air rifle permit

 

[Andy seatrout]

Then Crapita would grt it and we would have longer variation times....

Everything they touch folds.

Yes I’d not be keen on Capita…..

 

[Sealgair nam fiadh]

Yeah but they’re not talking about changing the conditions or fees for the air rifle permit

But you were talking about crimes committed with air guns for which you said "no ticket required".

 

[Rake Aboot]

It’s only Blackford using the death of a constituent to further his career and hold onto his seat.

Pretty shameless really , that man’s not worth a ****.

 

[User00035]

Bit rich of Scotland to complain about footing the bill.....how much do they contribute to the economy again?

They contribute the highest per capita debt in the whole of the UK. Snippy';s greatest achievement.

 

[User00040]

Should be allowed as many as you've need for!
But if we're going down that road I don't know why you need four shotguns, two's plenty enough!

One which holds 12 carts is plenty for me!

 

[andyk]

I try to stay off threads about Scottish politics as I don’t really consider it my business. However, seeing as he’s trying to make this the whole U.K., I’ll make a exception this time.

Seems to me to just be an excuse to ferment resentment between Westminster and Holyrood and further their hard left agenda.

Despite the recommendations, it also makes clear that the public risk is vanishingly small - really demonstrating that this is entirely political. This really begs the question of why it is a good use of public funds.

What’s even more blatant is that this is a stitch up. Perhaps the most clear cut evidence was on the certificate durations. None other than the Gun Control Network (who are a tiny organisation) expressed a view that shortening certificate durations was desirable. Yet, the report effectively suggests this should be considered.

Perhaps the only justification for shorter certificates is mental health and domestic changes. Given the report also suggests continuing monitoring of these aspects, there seems absolutely no justification for shortening durations. The only reason can be the one favoured by the Gun Control community Network - being making getting into shooting very difficult and costly.

On one hand, I’m not too set against increasing fees, if it is alongside a more efficient service and removal of the more unnecessary quirks of the system.

However, any shooting org needs to be very careful of how any increase is done. The cynic in me says a big motivation for full costs recovery is that it could become extremely burdensome if then combined with other cost creating initiatives, e.g. continuing reviews, more regular renewals, bespoke reporting line etc. the actual cost of the current system might not be too bad (£500 is the upper end for the worst performing constabularies) but the cost of their desired approach would be huge.

 

[JTO]

Although not wanting an increase in costs, if you look at English fishing rod licences... coarse and Trout up to 3 rods is £45 / year. £225 for 5 years. Salmon and sea Trout almost double that. Granted some of the income goes to waterway maintenance etc. However minimal admin and no background checks , land checks, etc. I expect for the majority of FAC holders (section 1 & 2) shooting is a "past time" like Angling. If it is your business, you just claim back increased costs from HMRC .

Fishing rod licenses are the alternative to business rates on fisheries. This way, the money goes to the EA instead of the local government wasters. If fisheries were charged business rates, they would put up there tickets, possibly making smaller setups VATable, so best left as it is.