​Perhaps S&B can learn something from these guys!

[jimbo1984]

I love S&B but I would only put my trust in the top end stuff.. my PMII was fantastic.. but then, it should be..

My first scope sat atop a T3 lite in 6.5x55 was a Hungarian S&B 8x56.. took it to the range, fired 3 shots off with the moderator on and then removed the mod to get an idea of POI change... first shot... the internals fell apart.. literally, everything fell out of whatever was holding it in place! Macleods replaced it promptly but it wasn't a very good introduction to the brand..

I have also had 2 Swaro Z6is.. they did the job but I never thought they were anything special.... my PMII 5-25x56 was fabulous but I think when the stalking rifle is replaced it will have a zeiss on top but again, only if I can afford one from up the range, I was wholly unimpressed by the Duralyt I looked through at the shooting show.

I did have a Leupold VXIII on an air rifle at one point which, I have to say was optically better than anything else I've used/had other then the PMII and the Gen1 Z6i (I think the 2nd gen is of poorer quality not better) how it would have faired under heavy recoil I don't know as I never tried it.

When the time comes, If I cant afford top shelf kit, then it will probably be a leupy I go for rather than anything else in the sub £700 range!

DURALYT

I'm sorry that's been your experiance I've got the German 6 x 42 and a Hungarian 8 x 56 and they've both been fantastic , I used to have a variable but sold it due to my liking for fixed power . I know many keepers and stalkers who have fixed power Schmidt in thier rifles a couple of them for 20 years or more and they all rate them highly forgreat optics and toughness

 

[Brithunter]

Part of the variable scope problem is that as they are the must have for most shooters now a lot of makers are dropping the better fixed magnification scopes from their range.

I own several variables but as I normally have to buy used to get the quality makes then I have to get what I come across in my pockets reach.

I also feel that the newer scopes are perhaps not built as well as the older models hence older scopes outlasting new ones in use.

Funny thing I was thinking about modern "improvements" as I drove back from the village this morning. Must be a bit late "mid-life crisis" but for the last couple of years the hankering for a nice little potter about motorcycle has been growing. Of course the ones I would love to have from my youth are all way outta reach. I found a couple of Norton Jubilees for sale but the cheapest was way over £2.5K I gave a tenner for mine back in the day.

So I recalled some friends owned and rode the Honda CD175 so looked them up. Once again sticker shock struck but thinking along these lines brought memories of setting points and renewing condensers on the old bikes and cars something that is long gone for most people and I wondered how many would have seen let alone used a points file.

Electronic ignition certainly has been an improvement...........................

So there you have it a modern idea which is better .

Others like plastic lenses and plastics in rifles are not IMHO.

 

[willie_gunn]

They're however not made in the USA, those stickers were left out many years ago on the packaging and scopes. Seems that even Mark4 is not made in US anymore.

Really? Are you sure? My VX-R has this wording stamped on it: "USA - Designed - Machined - Assembled"

​willie_gunn

 

[jthyttin]

Really? Are you sure? My VX-R has this wording stamped on it: "USA - Designed - Machined - Assembled"

​willie_gunn

You can do your own math, but I have made notes like the gentleman "Bonasa" in this thread (it seems that everybody has, except the die-hard fans who choose to close their eyes):

HELP - Where are Leupold Scopes Made? - Cabela's Talk Forums

The thread was just a result for search "Leupold not made in USA", haven't read it previously or anything.

Looking at Leupold website, it seems they're struggling with these suspicions (eroding customer loyalty) and thus have coined the term "All Leupold scopes are designed, machined and assembled in America." Previously (7-8 years ago??) the scopes and packaging carried stickers "Proudly made in the USA".

I've noticed one positive thing about Leupold, they have some nice optics for reasonable price in the Mark6 series. Apart from that, they haven't come up with anything but ridiculous price hikes and silly ideas like VX-L for past 5+ years. I guess that's just representative for the times we live in, Leupold is not the only company to "adjust" their prices in recent past...

 

[Hales Smut]

I never understood why S&B is so popular in the UK. Don't get me wrong, I don't say that they are not good. In Europe you just don't see them a lot. In my whole hunting life I have never see a S&B on a stalking rifle. In Belgium they buy either Swaro ( top class after sales service) , Zeiss or cheap stuff like Tasco or Buschnell.

 

[willie_gunn]

jthyttin

I am hardly a die-hard Leupold fan - I have four Zeiss scopes It just so happens I have a Leupold as well.

My point was more that your comment "They're however not made in the USA" implies that they are built outside of the US - clearly they are not.

As the link you provided helpfully points out, the reason they can no longer carry a sticker is that some of the components in the scope are sourced from outside the US and import/export (I am guessing Country of Origin) regulations thereby prevent their scopes being described as "Made in USA". That's why they can only say "Designed - Machined - Assembled" in USA.

It would be like me arguing that a Sako rifle isn't built in Finland because the rubber butt plate is sourced from India or the action retaining screws come from Germany.

willie_gunn

 

[Brithunter]

What people outside the US don't understand is the attitude to stuff made outside the US. Especially American brands. It's seen as disloyal. Leupold starting buying in parts from outside the US and word got out and it hurt their sales badly.

Add their newer interpretation of their own warranty and well they are losing sales.

Built and made are also two different things. one can build something from parts made elsewhere however making the parts is .......................................... well making them.

 

[willie_gunn]

What people outside the US don't understand is the attitude to stuff made outside the US. Especially American brands. It's seen as disloyal.

I lived in Texas for two years. Even anything sourced from North of the Red River was classed as "furr'n made"

willie_gunn

 

[jthyttin]

I am hardly a die-hard Leupold fan

Sorry, wasn't referring to you.

"Designed - Machined - Assembled" in USA.

Machined == at least one machining operation
Assembled == at least from sub assemblies

That's how I read it. Make no mistake, Leupold is nothing but a money making machine for it's owners. A lot of companies have been going through buy-overs etc. (not restricted to US or last few years).

And "made in USA" doesn't mean quality by any means.

And everything Sako has been doing for 20+ years is suffocate/rape other brands like Tikka(koski) and cheapen the production. Oh, did I mention hike the prices?

 

[jthyttin]

What people outside the US don't understand is the attitude to stuff made outside the US.

My hat's off to them for at least defining what "Made in USA" should mean:

Complying with the Made in USA Standard | BCP Business Center

 

[willie_gunn]

Make no mistake, Leupold is nothing but a money making machine for it's owners. A lot of companies have been going through buy-overs etc. (not restricted to US or last few years).

So how do you figure that exactly?

Leupold & Stevens is a privately held company that is still owned and controlled by the Leupold family. Being private they don't publish any financial information but their annual revenues are estimated at around $160m - hardly huge and I would doubt hugely money-making.

They are private rather than being part of some huge conglomerate or owned by a private equity company, and their last acquisition was of Redfield in 2010, so I don't follow your comment about buy-overs either?

If you don't like Leupold scopes that's fine, but if you're going to repeatedly bad-mouth a company please back it up with facts rather than innuendo and hearsay.

willie_gunn

 

[branko]

Actually you might need to see your shrink as you seem to have problems with manufacturers retailers, and anyone else who disagrees with your point of view.

[2QUOTE=8x57;667203]Crikey mate you need to book an appointment with specsavers.

Haven't had a problem with any S & B scopes so can't comment on their warranties but did have a problem with a Leupold which I purchased from one of the large mail order companies. The problem was resolved eventually but only after it coming close to court action. The service was so bad that I am unlikely to ever buy another Leupold and certainly won't be buying anything off Uttings ever again, nor was I very impressed by GMK.[/QUOTE]

 

[Yorkie]

Gents.
Really sorry i do not know how to do the link but for those who do not think Leupold make their Products in America look at 'Leupold Factory Tour' on You Tube.
Maybe someone brighter than me can do the Link?
It looks to me like they are made in Oregon but maybe i am missing something?
Thanks.

Yorkie.

 

[jthyttin]

So how do you figure that exactly?
...
If you don't like Leupold scopes that's fine, but if you're going to repeatedly bad-mouth a company please back it up with facts rather than innuendo and hearsay.

Not by using Wikipedia. I would take your comment more seriously if you had some other sources yourself. Look at the 80's adventures, Premier Reticles case etc. if you have any doubt about Leupold ownership having a desire for money (which is quite natural).

Nowadays, from the perspective of consumer, I guess there's legitimate "bad-mouthing" for every company. If there's no serious flaws in products (or false marketing) then the price is brought up to the limit.

If I have a grief with Leupold specifically, it's not with their products but the marketing (and pricing). I rather use my money efficiently, so given the choice I would buy from a runner-up company where the price more accurately reflects what I'm getting.

Here's the link for Yorkie:

 

[8x57]

Actually you might need to see your shrink as you seem to have problems with manufacturers retailers, and anyone else who disagrees with your point of view.

[2QUOTE=8x57;667203]Crikey mate you need to book an appointment with specsavers.

Haven't had a problem with any S & B scopes so can't comment on their warranties but did have a problem with a Leupold which I purchased from one of the large mail order companies. The problem was resolved eventually but only after it coming close to court action. The service was so bad that I am unlikely to ever buy another Leupold and certainly won't be buying anything off Uttings ever again, nor was I very impressed by GMK.

[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the well meaning advise Branko , I’ve consulted my psychiatrist and he’s confirmed that I am still safe to be in the community for the time being and confirms my view that you may like to consult your optician if you genuinely think that Leupold are optically superior to Schmidt & Bender as he fears you may be suffering from delusion issues. What he is more concerned over is that you may have some anger issues and he suggests that you may like to give him a call to see if he can assist you in any way. His number is Broadmoor 1212, I will repeat that just in case you are reading this through Leupold lens Broadmoor 1212.

 

[willie_gunn]

Not by using Wikipedia. I would take your comment more seriously if you had some other sources yourself. Look at the 80's adventures, Premier Reticles case etc. if you have any doubt about Leupold ownership having a desire for money (which is quite natural).

Nowadays, from the perspective of consumer, I guess there's legitimate "bad-mouthing" for every company. If there's no serious flaws in products (or false marketing) then the price is brought up to the limit.

If I have a grief with Leupold specifically, it's not with their products but the marketing (and pricing). I rather use my money efficiently, so given the choice I would buy from a runner-up company where the price more accurately reflects what I'm getting.

Here's the link for Yorkie:

Would Dun & Bradstreet be a serious enough source for you? They currently estimate revenue at just under $68m.

For someone who's repeatedly posted links to Internet threads in explaining your criticisms of Leupold you're mightily dismissive when others return the favour

willie_gunn

 

[Brithunter]

Well I just watched the clip and first thing I noticed was the European machinery in use.

​I also noticed no lens making was shown.

 

[willie_gunn]

Well I just watched the clip and first thing I noticed was the European machinery in use.

​I also noticed no lens making was shown.

Regarding glass, they outsource it (my guess is they buy from Schott, like most other scope manufacturers).

You can read more about it on Chuck Hawks website: http://www.chuckhawks.com/leupold_tour.htm Of course that's a link to an internet website so I can offer no guarantee as to its accuracy.

This thread seems to be devolving into endless nit-picking.....to which I will hold up my hand as being responsible, at least in part.

willie_gunn

 

[Brithunter]

Regarding glass, they outsource it (my guess is they buy from Schott, like most other scope manufacturers).

You can read more about it on Chuck Hawks website: http://www.chuckhawks.com/leupold_tour.htm Of course that's a link to an internet website so I can offer no guarantee as to its accuracy.

This thread seems to be devolving into endless nit-picking.....to which I will hold up my hand as being responsible, at least in part.

willie_gunn

No not nitpicking really. I was surprised to see Index machinery though. The US did have quite a machinery manufacturing base at one time. I don't know if they still do though. Mazak are Japanese I believe correction it seems that MAZAK are in fact American I have even worked some in the past and for reason thought they were Japanese. The ones I worked on I don't remember which control system they used now as it was nigh on 20 years ago.

 

[willie_gunn]

No not nitpicking really. I was surprised to see Index machinery though. The US did have quite a machinery manufacturing base at one time. I don't know if they still do though. Mazak are Japanese I believe correction it seems that MAZAK are in fact American I have even worked some in the past and for reason thought they were Japanese. The ones I worked on I don't remember which control system they used now as it was nigh on 20 years ago.

Apologies. My comment on nitpicking wasn't aimed specifically at you, or indeed anyone in particular on this thread, and it was as much a self-criticism.

It just struck me that we seem to have moved quite a way away from the OP's comments regarding robustness and reliability.

But I guess this isn't the first, and certainly won't be the last, thread to do that.

willie_gunn