1 for 1?

[Liveonce]

It’s not.

And why do you have to bring BASC into it?

as they have an excellent firearms help team and attend the NPCC firearms and explosive licensing working group to name one group, think they also attend one with MPs.

it was not ment as a criticism of BASC.

 

[M@tt]

To be fair, you missed the rest of the para out that says this is normally within seven days but it is down to the issuing force.

The point is however, there is no time limit on the legislation and a fee should only be levied if there is an increase in the number of firearms held. 1:4:1 is not subject to a fee.

Here is the whole paragraph, and section on 1-4-1 variations. If you want to see the whole document you can find it HERE.
There is no mention of seven days or any other normal limit, other than there is no set time for the 1-4-1. As it actually says no set time limit, so it shouldn't come down to the issuing force setting there own, and if they do I would ask them why they feel the need to go against the Guidance.

“One for one” variations

10.36 A variation is always necessary if a certificate holder wishes to change one of the firearms, even if they wish to purchase one identical to the one they are selling (Wilson v Coombe, Queen’s Bench Divisional Court, July 1988). “One for one” variation refers to firearms that are authorised to be acquired following the disposal of a firearm or a request to change an existing authority to acquire. There is no set time in which the certificate holder must apply for a replacement authority once their firearm is disposed of. The keeping of open authorities indefinitely should be discouraged, subject to a collector seeking particular firearms. Applications for “one for one” variations should be made by the certificate holder submitting their firearm certificate together with a completed Form 201V to the police firearms licensing department. Such variations are processed free of charge. In most cases, it will not be necessary to re-examine the applicant’s circumstances. Further enquiries will be necessary, however, if for example the application is for a change of use or for a full-bore firearm when the holder’s shooting club only has facilities for small-bore shooting.

 

[25 Sharps]

Here is the whole paragraph, and section on 1-4-1 variations. If you want to see the whole document you can find it HERE.
There is no mention of seven days or any other normal limit, other than there is no set time for the 1-4-1. As it actually says no set time limit, so it shouldn't come down to the issuing force setting there own, and if they do I would ask them why they feel the need to go against the Guidance.

Ah apologies, I’m sure when I looked at the document the other day it had changed to state a week!

Good to see it hasn’t.

 

[25 Sharps]

Edit

@M@tt just found it.

19.5 contradicts 10.36, suggests a time limit of 7 days at the discretion of the fld

	19.5 Where a certificate holder who has disposed of a firearm makes application for a variation upon disposing of the firearm this will not normally attract a fee. This is usually within the seven days allowed for advice of the disposal, although this time
	may vary between police forces and depend on circumstance. Timings should be checked with the relevant licensing department.

 

[olie.c93]

Does anyone else think that a 1 for 1 variation if its for the same caliber rifle is a waste of firearms licencings time? I mean what difference is it to them selling one make of gun and buying another in the same caliber. Surely it would make more sense if you didn't have to send in for a variation and could just buy and sell?

 

[25 Sharps]

Does anyone else think that a 1 for 1 variation if its for the same caliber rifle is a waste of firearms licencings time? I mean what difference is it to them selling one make of gun and buying another in the same caliber. Surely it would make more sense if you didn't have to send in for a variation and could just buy and sell?

They would be far too much like common sense.

 

[M@tt]

Edit

@M@tt just found it.

19.5 contradicts 10.36, suggests a time limit of 7 days at the discretion of the fld

19.5 Where a certificate holder who has disposed of a firearm makes application for a variation upon disposing of the firearm this will not normally attract a fee. This is usually within the seven days allowed for advice of the disposal, although this time[br] may vary between police forces and depend on circumstance. Timings should be checked with the relevant licensing department.

Thanks.
Contradiction indeed.

 

[Liveonce]

So we have seven days to meet our obligations for a 1:4:1 and they can take months if not years to process applications.

Surly the 10.36 court case sets law precedent, which trumps 19.5 guidance.

And why should timing vary by different police forces?

 

[25 Sharps]

So we have seven days to meet our obligations for a 1:4:1 and they can take months if not years to process applications.

Surly the 10.36 court case sets law precedent, which trumps 19.5 guidance.

And why should timing vary by different police forces?

Without reading the case, the way that paragraph is written suggests the court case rules a one for one is needed even if replacing a firearm with an identical one, nothing to do with timescales.

 

[AlexD]

Never knew this.
If you sell a firearm and want to buy another without incurring a fee, (1 for 1) you must make your purchase within one month of the one you sold.
Sure there wasn’t always a time limit on the transaction.
Ken.

Scotland has a 7 day limit on the time between asking for the 1:1 and for the disposal for the slot. Thankfully Edinburgh Rifles do a great service as RFDs, enabling this to go smoothly. This is the same policy as @ashray reported in Thames Valley above, so it seems to be UK wide. Thanks to M@tt for finding where in the regulations this limit comes from.

As evidence: below is a cut and paste from a Firearms Scotland email me for a 1:1 done earlier in the year (converted to italics) so quoted text is clear:
OFFICIAL
Good morning (my name),
Thank you for your email.
To allow us to treat this application as a one for one with no fee, the rifle needs to be disposed of first and application submitted within 7 days of the disposal.
Is this something you can arrange then resubmit this email and attachments including the disposal notification?
Kind regards
(The FEO's name)
Firearms Licensing Administrator
Firearms and Explosive Licensing
Governance, Audit and Assurance
Police Scotland

 

[M@tt]

Scotland has a 7 day limit on the time between asking for the 1:1 and for the disposal for the slot. Thankfully Edinburgh Rifles do a great service as RFDs, enabling this to go smoothly. This is the same policy as @ashray reported in Thames Valley above, so it seems to be UK wide. Thanks to M@tt for finding where in the regulations this limit comes from.

As evidence: below is a cut and paste from a Firearms Scotland email me for a 1:1 done earlier in the year (converted to italics) so quoted text is clear:
OFFICIAL
Good morning (my name),
Thank you for your email.
To allow us to treat this application as a one for one with no fee, the rifle needs to be disposed of first and application submitted within 7 days of the disposal.
Is this something you can arrange then resubmit this email and attachments including the disposal notification?
Kind regards
(The FEO's name)
Firearms Licensing Administrator
Firearms and Explosive Licensing
Governance, Audit and Assurance
Police Scotland

We all know the Peoples' Rebuplik of Skotland often does things differently - for the greater good.

To be fair, this is only a problem for those that forget to apply at the time. We all have to notify the disposal within a week, so why not just ask for the 1-4-1 at the same time? It doesn't even need to be different calibre, etc., you can always do another 1-4-1 once you've figured out what you want.

 

[Liveonce]

We all know the Peoples' Rebuplik of Skotland often does things differently - for the greater good.

To be fair, this is only a problem for those that forget to apply at the time. We all have to notify the disposal within a week, so why not just ask for the 1-4-1 at the same time? It doesn't even need to be different calibre, etc., you can always do another 1-4-1 once you've figured out what you want.

Which is fine but hardly improves the efficiency or cost of running the FLD, why the time limit needs to be seven days is the question why not one month or even three months?