1 for 1 variations
- Thread starter Lloyd90
- Start date
Covered by the guidance and if any individual department varies from this they should be taken to task.
10.36 A variation is always necessary if a certificate holder wishes to change one of the firearms, even if they wish to purchase one identical to the one they are selling (Wilson v Coombe, Queen’s Bench Divisional Court, July 1988). “One for one” variation refers to firearms that are authorised to be acquired following the disposal of a firearm or a request to change an existing authority to acquire. There is no set time in which the certificate holder must apply for a replacement authority once their firearm is disposed of. The keeping of open authorities indefinitely should be discouraged, subject to a collector seeking particular firearms. Applications for “one for one” variations should be made by the certificate holder submitting their firearm certificate together with a completed Form 201V to the police firearms licensing department. Such variations are processed free of charge. In most cases, it will not be necessary to re-examine the applicant’s circumstances. Further enquiries will be necessary, however, if for example the application is for a change of use or for a full-bore firearm when the holder’s shooting club only has facilities for small-bore shooting.
10.36 A variation is always necessary if a certificate holder wishes to change one of the firearms, even if they wish to purchase one identical to the one they are selling (Wilson v Coombe, Queen’s Bench Divisional Court, July 1988). “One for one” variation refers to firearms that are authorised to be acquired following the disposal of a firearm or a request to change an existing authority to acquire. There is no set time in which the certificate holder must apply for a replacement authority once their firearm is disposed of. The keeping of open authorities indefinitely should be discouraged, subject to a collector seeking particular firearms. Applications for “one for one” variations should be made by the certificate holder submitting their firearm certificate together with a completed Form 201V to the police firearms licensing department. Such variations are processed free of charge. In most cases, it will not be necessary to re-examine the applicant’s circumstances. Further enquiries will be necessary, however, if for example the application is for a change of use or for a full-bore firearm when the holder’s shooting club only has facilities for small-bore shooting.
10.36 A variation is always necessary if a certificate holder wishes to change one of the firearms, even if they wish to purchase one identical to the one they are selling (Wilson v Coombe, Queen’s Bench Divisional Court, July 1988). “One for one” variation refers to firearms that are authorised to be acquired following the disposal of a firearm or a request to change an existing authority to acquire. There is no set time in which the certificate holder must apply for a replacement authority once their firearm is disposed of. The keeping of open authorities indefinitely should be discouraged, subject to a collector seeking particular firearms. Applications for “one for one” variations should be made by the certificate holder submitting their firearm certificate together with a completed Form 201V to the police firearms licensing department. Such variations are processed free of charge. In most cases, it will not be necessary to re-examine the applicant’s circumstances. Further enquiries will be necessary, however, if for example the application is for a change of use or for a full-bore firearm when the holder’s shooting club only has facilities for small-bore shooting.
Exemption from fees for firearm certificates:
Variations
19.4 No fee is payable on variation:
a) if the total number of firearms to which the certificate relates is not increased;
b) in respect of amended or variation of conditions;
c) in respect of ammunition alone;
d) when a firearm certificate is renewed at the same time; or
e) where the two elements of a “one for one” variation take place at the same time; that is one firearm is exchanged for another at the same time.
19.5 Where a certificate holder who has disposed of a firearm makes application for a variation upon disposing of the firearm this will not normally attract a fee. This is usually within the seven days allowed for advice of the disposal, although this time may vary between police forces and depend on circumstance. Timings should be checked with the relevant licensing department.
In theory if disposing of a firearm and you want the same back on your cert as an authority then there should be no fee, as there is no variation, ie .308 disposed of and .308 added as authority to purchase/hold. No increase in n umbers and no details change. I think many licencing department will interpret things differently.
Nonsense.
See the extract from the guidance above.
You only pay for a variation if you increase the number of firearms (inc moderators) held.
I feel I'm being misquoted here, you have to inform the police within 7 days of the sale of a firearm. If you don't do a 1-1 you will lose the slot
No you won’t, that is not written in the legislation and should not be the case.
The slot on your certificate is your authority to posses a type of firearm, just because you dispose of an individual firearm you don’t give up your authority to possess.
See the part in bold in my first post above, “There is no set time in which the certificate holder must apply for a replacement authority once their firearm is disposed of.”
Last edited:
Then our experiences differ, enjoy the rest of your evening
The point being, people should be given correct information, the correct information is contained within the guidance and more importantly the legislation, not the rules some FLDs make up for themselves.
Where do these people get there info from??
Dr Google ? Mary Poppins??
You don’t pay for a one for one!
There’s no bleeding time scale!
I’ve do 5 one for ones in the past and just done a 4 rifle change!
Chriiist ain’t we got enough rules already without Lala putting in a appearance
Hunter300
Well-Known Member
MAH
Well-Known Member
That's all good stuff. But the next sentence states, - "The keeping of open authorities indefinitely should be discouraged".
Which is why IMHO, different police forces have taken different views the time period between, 0 days and infinite days for a free variation.
@Lloyd90
Being a pragmatic chap, if I anticipate replacing rifle, when I have sold one, I have said so in my letter notifying the police of the sale. ( less than 7 days), pointing out I'll complete the variation when I have the details.
I suggest you let them know your intention ASAP..
M
Keeping authorities indefinitely is talking about empty slots you are yet to fill, not one for one variations, because if you don’t fulfil them then you probably don’t have good reason in the first place.
It also only says that it should be discouraged, not that it is not allowed!
That’s why if you have a slot at renewal that has remained empty for a long time it will get removed.
Last edited:
MAH
Well-Known Member
As I see it, paragraph 10.36 (post #6), is describing guidance for a variation. So it is reasonable to take the two consecutive sentences together, as relating to a variation.
Othere parts of the guidance may indeed point out what you say above, and that would be consistent in principle, with my view that the opportunity for a one for one variation will expire at some point.
Your right, that the guidelines are "quiet" on how long that is. Therefore individual police forces have set a time scale to facilitate consistent application of the guidance by their FLOs
M
But a variation isn’t keeping open an authority, it’s changing it for something else, there is also a big difference between say, 6 months and indefinitely!
What about the situation where you apply for a moderator at grant or renewal then decide not to purchase and use that slot as a 1-4-1 for something else? Do you have to do this within 1 week, 1 month a year? No, of course you don’t it can sit there and the get varied, what is the difference?
As far as I read it, as it is there in black and white, there is no time limit for a variation. This is definitely something I would argue with the FLD should they ever try to contradict the guidance.
I have done that many variations over the years the size of my file is a running joke within the FLD! I’ve never had a time limit and ultimately this is not a query on whether the variation can happen but whether or not after a certain time a fee is applicable.
If you are not increasing the number of firearms on your certificate, irrespective of time passed, no fee is applicable, simple as that!
Similar threads
