.17 hmr heads again

[old keeper]

Regarding the neck splitting situation. I am led to believe that due to the small size of the HMR neck the primer cannot be put in, so the primer is loaded whilst the case is still 22 and then necked down to 17 cold. This then leads to splitting. Providing the case is sound before firing the splitting occurs after the bullet leaves the case and as the case is no longer of any use does the fact it is split that important? If this is the situation why then did this problem not occur when this round first made its appearance. I have to say though that till recently I never checked fired cases to see if there was any splitting.
Personally although firing considerable numbers of this round in my Anschutz 17/17 I have never had a problem, Always Hornady ammo.

 

[bewsher500]

I have had lots of split necks, have to say I only noticed in passing not because said bullet was landing anywhere other than expected so am inclined to agree.
One thing though, it is not a problem exclusive to the HMR.

Here are two .17Mach2 cases next to a split HMR, one clearly split, one perforated. neither presented an obvious shift in POI, nor was any split noticeable before firing

 

[bewsher500]

out of interest and boredom I thought I would look at some unfired cases.

Round number 3 plucked out of a box of Winchester:

went through 4 boxes of CCI hollow and vmax without finding one. not sure if there is a conclusion to draw from that

 

[eggy s]

out of interest and boredom I thought I would look at some unfired cases.

Round number 3 plucked out of a box of Winchester:

went through 4 boxes of CCI hollow and vmax without finding one. not sure if there is a conclusion to draw from that

Dont CCI make all the HMR Ammo for all the different brands?

 

[bewsher500]

Dont CCI make all the HMR Ammo for all the different brands?

yes.
but as all my split cases are winchester and I found none likely to split in the CCI boxes I have, I draw from that they use different brass, bullet or materials at some point, cant be coincidence....

 

[MarinePMI]

Or it was a specific production run, where maybe an annealing step in the manufacturing process was buggered. It may just be that that production run, was run for Winchester.

JMTCW...

 

[Hornet 6]

Or it was a specific production run
JMTCW...

Seems unlikely as split cases before and after firing along with squibs has been seen/reported on all makes in both HM2 and HMR.
And it has been happening for a few years now, my only experiance or this was with HM2 4 years ago.
I fired 100 mixed rounds, CCI, Hornady and Remington.
I had 60 split cases, 13 squibs that eneded up stuck up the pipe, of a further 100 rounds checked, again mixed, 25% were cracked or had a pin hole on the shoulder.
The only rounds I never got to check were Eley as I couldn't get any, as it turned out all the ammo was dated 2004/5.
I was lucky, I bought the rifle froma stand up dealer who fully refunded on the rifle, all ammo I had bought, from him and elsewhere, and my fule costs for returning the rifle.
That was the end of HM2 for me, a shame as I felt it had a lot to offer as a rabbit control round.

Neil.

 

[Brithunter]

Regarding the neck splitting situation. I am led to believe that due to the small size of the HMR neck the primer cannot be put in, so the primer is loaded whilst the case is still 22 and then necked down to 17 cold. This then leads to splitting. Providing the case is sound before firing the splitting occurs after the bullet leaves the case and as the case is no longer of any use does the fact it is split that important? If this is the situation why then did this problem not occur when this round first made its appearance. I have to say though that till recently I never checked fired cases to see if there was any splitting.
Personally although firing considerable numbers of this round in my Anschutz 17/17 I have never had a problem, Always Hornady ammo.

OK the problem with your theory is that they can anneal the neck before priming so that puts the idea out does it not?


Let's face it somewhere along the line in this ammunition production quality is NOT being checked properly.

 

[Hornet 6]

OK the problem with your theory is that they can anneal the neck before priming so that puts the idea out does it not?

Yes they could, but I was told by CCI when trying to sort out my HM2 that cases were necked down not only after priming, but after charging as well ?
How true this is I don't know, but whatever the reason you can bet cost cutting is at the root of the problem.

Nei;.

 

[devon deer stalker]

I have just taken my rifle with the bullet head in the barrel to my local gun shop with all the .17hmr
rounds i have , good timing for once because the sales rep for edgar bros was there who import most of the
ammunition and cz rifles.He confirmed that this fault has been known about since they started selling the ammo,
they currently sell over 5 million rounds of 17.hmr per year in the uk and are getting 20-30 reports of this kind in the same time frame.He said the fault is caused by the neck of the case getting cracked in the annealing/loading
process , this small nearly microscopic crack lets in moisture and causes the powder to clump and therefore not
fire properly.
I examined the suspect case from my rifle and found this to be true, the rep was really honeast and helpfull
he gave me some free rounds and appologised and said that if the rifle had been damaged in any way he would have relaced it f.o.c.So get your spy glasses out boys and check those case necks !

You know this is worrying ( i dont own a 17 hmr), i posted the issues on a forum in the US, each go so far has stated they have experinced no issues at all, and dont know of any, i copied the above post and sent it over, so at first inspection it would appear to be only a problem in the UK.
Cheers
Richard

 

[rob121]

Just had my first taste of a stuck head! Took the .17 out , 2nd shot of the night, pulled trigger and click. When I ejected the spent cartridge I thought perhaps I hadnt ejected the previous case, then because I had read this thread this afternoon before I had gone out I thought I would check and sure enough there she glowed
will be ringing hornady tomorrow, see what they have to say for themselves! My gunsmith charges a lot of money to remove stuck heads

Rob

 

[springer]

maybe some of the rust had a hand in it????

 

[rob121]

maybe some of the rust had a hand in it????

What rust? If your referring to the gun, theres no rust on that baby, thats only probably the 10th shot shes had at most. I am using my red lamping light so could be to do with that.

Rob

 

[8x57]

maybe some of the rust had a hand in it????

Looks like the inside of an old steam boiler to me.

 

[springer]

look at your photo and tell us thats not rust!!!

 

[rob121]

Ive just checked the rifle and theres def no rust. Heres some more pics taken at the same time and focused differently.

Ill await my apologises! lol

Anyways getting back to the topic, I spoke to edgar brothers today and have to say they couldnt have been more helpful. Ive got to take the gun and any remaining ammo to my local gunshop who will send it to them. They will look at the barrell and if its a problem getting the head out, then they will swap with a new gun and will replace all the ammo with a new batch. Interesting when I mentioned that I had read many similiar experience on this forum his reply was that they are having "sporadic problems with this round". Hopefully they will sort this issue out soon!

 

[8x57]

All joking aside rob it looks like there may be a little bit of damage at the top of the chamber but its difficult to see clearly in the photographs. If it is damage it could have been caused by dry firing which in the case of a rimfire will allow the firing pin to contact the entrance to the chamber and can if done extensively peen it over causing difficulty in chambering rounds. Years ago I traded a star pistol that the previous owner had dry fired a fair bit and it wouldn't chamber a round properly. A few minutes with a needle file solved the problem. There also appears to be a small amount of moisture present in the first photograph (drop of water perhaps?).

 

[Muir]

look at your photo and tell us thats not rust!!!

It's not. I have seen that before under red light photography. I had an Egyptian Hakim rifle appear to be a rusty crow bar under the same conditions when when the rifle was actually mint.

But even if it was rust, why would that cause a round to misfire and lodge a bullet in the barrel? ~Muir

 

[woodfordfallow]

Well Well WELL.17HMR read my post on what happend to me. Then Two weeks ago a new gun FOC.Ruger stainless.
First night out 25 shots looked to see if i had chamberd a round. and the head had stuck in the chamber.
I didn't have a rod so put the gun to one side.My mate had his gun a cz 8 rounds same again.
These rounds are so exspensive that they should be better. Last night out again one case has plit
open from top to half way down the case.I have reported this to the gun shop .He gave me a ramrod to
push the heads out. SOMEONE IS GOING TO GET INJURED SOON WITH THIS CALIBRE.

forget rusty guns woodfordfallow

 

[photopro]

It is one thing selling goods not fit for their intended purpose, something else when they are likely to cause serious injury as a result of that failure. It's obvious that HMR ammunition manufacturers are happy to tollerate lax quality control and deal with incidents when they happen, what is it going to take before someone says enough is enough ? A death ??
Is this not something the BASC could take up - British Association for Shooter Conservation ??