1st Deer Calibre Rifle - Advice

[25 Sharps]

I always thought it would be a sensible option for your first FAC application if you could specify a sensible range of calibres, or something like 'deer legal, calibre TBC'. When I applied I had previously shot .243, .308 and 6.5x55 and would have been happy with any of them. But to be honest funds were limited and the determining factor was always going to be what turned up as a good deal on Gun Trader! Having to make a choice I plumped for .308 and then waited for a good deal on a T3 but I could just have easily have picked up a .243 or 6.5x55 if I hadn't had to commit to one or the other up front. Besides giving those with limited budgets more flexibility it would also allow the purchaser to prioritise the things like fit and suitability that are getting highlighted here and are probably much more important than an arbitrary calibre choice.

This would be far too open, you could jump straight on to an HME calibre like 300 win mag or even .338 Lap Mag or .50 BMG if that was what the slot was for, then you would have to start adding up to .30 Cal and 3000 ft-lb muzzle energy and that sort of thing, would all start getting a bit complicated. The fit argument doesn't really stand up as most rifles will be available in all of the common calibres so you can get a t3 in .243 or .308 or 6.5x55 and economics can't come into it as you can't request say 5000 rds of 0.22 because you can buy them more cheaply, it doesn't constitute good reason.

At the end of the day .243 up to .308 will all stop deer with correct shot placement, if the OP has the opportunity to try different calibres / rifles great, if not shoulder a few at the RFD, pick a calibre and job done.

 

[andyf]

This would be far too open, you could jump straight on to an HME calibre like 300 win mag or even .338 Lap Mag or .50 BMG if that was what the slot was for, then you would have to start adding up to .30 Cal and 3000 ft-lb muzzle energy and that sort of thing, would all start getting a bit complicated. The fit argument doesn't really stand up as most rifles will be available in all of the common calibres so you can get a t3 in .243 or .308 or 6.5x55 and economics can't come into it as you can't request say 5000 rds of 0.22 because you can buy them more cheaply, it doesn't constitute good reason.

At the end of the day .243 up to .308 will all stop deer with correct shot placement, if the OP has the opportunity to try different calibres / rifles great, if not shoulder a few at the RFD, pick a calibre and job done.

Agree, and in my head the "sensible rage of calibres" would have obvious limits and exclusions but as it's unlikely to ever happen I suppose it's a moot point!

I think my point was that, as many of the response to the OP have pointed out, the calibres being talked about - .243, .308, 6.5x55 etc - are all much of a muchness when it comes to their use as a sensible deer stalking calibre. If that's the case then there's no massive difference between them from a licensing perspective. So licensing a first time applicant without tying them down to one of those calibres gives them more flexibility and choice in making their purchase. If you're operating in the second hand market with limited funds then that can help.

But I take your point that economics are not top of the considerations for licensing (and probably neither is making it easier for me or anyone else to purchase their first stalking rifle!)...

 

[caorach]

Picking a cartridge, if you just want to go stalking, is relatively easy. Go to a few local gunshops and ask them to show you the ammo they have. Buy a rifle that shoots the most readily available and cheapest ammo.

There is no shortage of new cartridges and the trendy calibre changes from time to time, in the last few years it has been 6mm, 6.5mm and 7mm that I recall. However just as you never met a salmon angler full of regret because their net was too big so you are unlikely to meet a stalker who regrets making as big a hole as possible in that stag of a lifetime. So if you have the choice to make a big hole or a small one go big every time and in practical terms in the UK that usually means something in a 30 calibre.

Make your life as easy as possible, stick with the old standards, don't get caught up in Internet affectation.

 

[tusker]

There is chap in south Wilts shoots nowt but 243 . professional stalker has taken ALL UK deer species both sexes . He has probably taken over 2000 head of game if you include foxes.
Buy a rifle , learn to shoot.
Tusker

 

[Hunterjohnb]

As a first venture into deer stalking I would suggest either a 6.5 x 55 or a 308. you will not go wrong with either one. I would suggest 140 gr in 6.5 or 150/165 gr in 308. Soft point ammo giving less carcass damage and more meat for the pot.Both have reasonable recoil and are readily available. Both also have a reasonable margin of error. Best wishes with you endeavour. Don't forget the the dog.

 

[NigelM]

If you're new to the sport I would advise that you go for something with some margin for error. There is nothing worse than watching a shot deer run off out of sight, not quite sure where you placed the shot because you lost the sight picture as you took the shot. A 243 in the right hands is perfectly capable of taking Red and Sika but the placement has to be spot on.

I would be looking at what weight of bullet you want to deliver and what speed you want to deliver it at. I shoot 22, 6mm, 6.5mm and 7mm. The 6mm 100 grain at 3200 fps will do the job if I'm spot on, my preferred tool if Hind shooting and neck shots are required. The 6.5mm 129 grain at 2900 fps for chest shots is alright, but they do regularly run on a bit before going down if shots are beyond 200 yds. The 7mm08 with 140 grain bullets at 2850 fps knocks them over with a bit more authority and the 280ai running 168 grains at 2950fps is more gun than is required to do the job unless shooting beyond 300 yds.

When I go after Red and Sika it's always the 7mm08 that comes out of the cabinet, mentioned several times already in this thread and ballistically identical to the 275 which has also been mentioned several times. It also works very well on Fallow and Roe. Recoil is very reasonable, much softer than a 270 Win, and ammunition is easy to come by. A great allrounder.

Everyone has a different opinion dependant on the experiences they have had. That's mine. Hope it helps.

 

[User00003]

If you're new to the sport I would advise that you go for something with some margin for error. There is nothing worse than watching a shot deer run off out of sight, not quite sure where you placed the shot because you lost the sight picture as you took the shot. A 243 in the right hands is perfectly capable of taking Red and Sika but the placement has to be spot on.

I would be looking at what weight of bullet you want to deliver and what speed you want to deliver it at. I shoot 22, 6mm, 6.5mm and 7mm. The 6mm 100 grain at 3200 fps will do the job if I'm spot on, my preferred tool if Hind shooting and neck shots are required. The 6.5mm 129 grain at 2900 fps for chest shots is alright, but they do regularly run on a bit before going down if shots are beyond 200 yds. The 7mm08 with 140 grain bullets at 2850 fps knocks them over with a bit more authority and the 280ai running 168 grains at 2950fps is more gun than is required to do the job unless shooting beyond 300 yds.

When I go after Red and Sika it's always the 7mm08 that comes out of the cabinet, mentioned several times already in this thread and ballistically identical to the 275 which has also been mentioned several times. It also works very well on Fallow and Roe. Recoil is very reasonable, much softer than a 270 Win, and ammunition is easy to come by. A great allrounder.

Everyone has a different opinion dependant on the experiences they have had. That's mine. Hope it helps.

Intelligent response and worthy of taking note of

 

[tarponhead]

What he said!!
you only need one calibre for GB. It’s the 6.5x55 loaded with 140gr bullets. Mild recoil, superb accuracy. I have other calibre but it’s the swede that I reach for again and again.

+1. Just find a rifle that makes your heart go skippity hop and buy it. The rest is just fluff. Oh, and learn to shoot it properly. Just saying....

 

[enfieldspares]

Picking a cartridge, if you just want to go stalking, is relatively easy. Go to a few local gunshops and ask them to show you the ammo they have. Buy a rifle that shoots the most readily available and cheapest ammo.

There's a lot of sense in that. And this is the UK and not the USA. So available and good calibres there may be virtually rare as hens' teeth here. The .257 Roberts being a case in point. Personally I'd discount the .243 Winchester as I think for woodland stalking it has too much velocity. And if non-lead bullets become mandatory where does that leave the .243 Winchester in Scotland?

I now have only a ,270 WCF and a .30-06 and if I were to have my time again I'd get a .30-06 and be done with it now that France's "military calibre" ban is repealed. But both 6.5x55 and .308 Winchester are good choices too. As is the 7mm-08. The .270 WCF? I don't know why I still have mine but as I shot my first deer with a .270 WCF Churchill I suppose it's sentimental attachment. I not today buy one.

 

[Odders]

This would be far too open, you could jump straight on to an HME calibre like 300 win mag or even .338 Lap Mag or .50 BMG if that was what the slot was for, then you would have to start adding up to .30 Cal and 3000 ft-lb muzzle energy and that sort of thing, would all start getting a bit complicated. The fit argument doesn't really stand up as most rifles will be available in all of the common calibres so you can get a t3 in .243 or .308 or 6.5x55 and economics can't come into it as you can't request say 5000 rds of 0.22 because you can buy them more cheaply, it doesn't constitute good reason.

At the end of the day .243 up to .308 will all stop deer with correct shot placement, if the OP has the opportunity to try different calibres / rifles great, if not shoulder a few at the RFD, pick a calibre and job done.

Of course if those who produce the legislature placing restrictions on firearms were actually competent, there would be an approved list of calibres/cartridges from which one could purchase a firearm, then inform the relevant FLO as to what one has.

Oh, silly me: I was being all logical again...

 

[Sierra]

For what you describe a 243 will do. I not a fan of the caliber (put off by a bad remy 700) but it's cheap to use and will drop anything in the uk, with the correct bullet. I have a 308 which I graduated to for boar, deer and AOQ but I'm a big proponent of bullet placement. Put the time in to practice and learn where to put the bullet. It will save you lots of time and if you are a considerate stalker, heartache. What ever you go after, big or small deserves your respect and should be treated accordingly

 

[User00033]

For what you describe a 243 will do. I not a fan of the caliber (put off by a bad remy 700) but it's cheap to use and will drop anything in the uk, with the correct bullet. I have a 308 which I graduated to for boar, deer and AOQ but I'm a big proponent of bullet placement. Put the time in to practice and learn where to put the bullet. It will save you lots of time and if you are a considerate stalker, heartache. What ever you go after, big or small deserves your respect and should be treated accordingly

Here here!

So blaserf3, what have you decided on? Too often we get these questions, then never hear from the OP again. Keep us posted, even if you've only got a (hopefully very short) shortlist.

 

[JTO]

New or secondhand?
From what is written, a secondhand .308 is less likely to be shot out than a .243 for the same round count, but a .243 is less likely to have been used on ranges.

 

[big ears]

New or secondhand?
From what is written, a secondhand .308 is less likely to be shot out than a .243 for the same round count, but a .243 is less likely to have been used on ranges.

So get a 6.5x55 secondhand. Has same burn out characteristics as 308 and all the mild manners of the 243! Simple. As to runners that all down to bullets and bullet placement. Use a soft bullet like the Sierra GK or PH and it’s not a problem.

BE

 

[Southern]

If you have someone who can assist you in evaluating used rifles, that is a great way to go.
If you are unsure, then buy an entry level rifle of solid machinery, like a Winchester XPR, Browning A-Bolt 3, Ruger American, Savage Axis.

Step up just a wee bit and buy a Howa 1500 or Tikka T3X.

I disagree with those who put tons in a scope, especially for a first rifle. You aren't going to be shooting that far on deer, and you don't need to shoot far in order to learn how to shoot your rifle well. A good 6x42 will cover all open ground. A small 2-7x like a Vortex, Burris, Leupold, Bushnell Legend or 3500 will cover close shots in the woods and 300 yard shots in fields.

I started my son on deer, at age 12, with a second-hand Winchester Model 70 Compact in 7mm-08, with a 1.5-4.5x scope, which it still wears. I loaded 120-gr Sierra and Nosler Ballistic Tips at 2650 fps ( like a .257 Roberts ). His friends, shooting .243s, eventually took a bad shot or pulled a shot in their eagerness, and had a deer run off. My son never lost confidence in his rifle, or himself, as he moved up to full 140-gr loads, and he never lost a deer.

I realize that 7x57 or 7mm-08 may not be readily available in the UK as it is in the USA, but those are great deer rounds. As several previous posters have said, give yourself a bit of margin in power.

 

[Fisheruk100]

I find the 6.5x55 a really excellent choice and it loves PPU 139gr, which makes it very economical to shoot.

 

[enfieldspares]

I disagree with those who put tons in a scope, especially for a first rifle.

100% on your calibre advice. I've never liked .243" Winchester. Too much damage at close range...say twenty yards...but too little margin for error on larger deer at over 100 yards.

But can't agree Southern on the 'scope. I've always said unless you want a classic vintage 'scope for a classic vintage rifle then buy the best...good basic used Swarovski, Zeiss, S & B etc., that you can afford even if it cost twice, three times the rifle cost. But except for my Laubscher I've never paid more £350 for any stalking rifle. But I'm with you in that I agree that these $2,000 to $3,000 exotics are silly. But a good used top end maker...

Gregor Macleod at Tain will have something under the [FONT=&amp] £[/FONT]500.00 mark...he always is well worth a look for us "Brits". He's never disappointed. Ever. He has a used S & B 6x42 at [FONT=&amp] £[/FONT]120.00 currently.

Even with modern optics being so good I'd still consider a Leupold as an entry level 'scope. The big advantage we have in UK is that decent, quality, Zeiss and the like 3-9x36 and similar, even 3-9x42 are out of "fashion" and can be picked up for often half what they retailed for originally in real terms. I had three Diavari-C 3-9x36 at one time and never paid more that [FONT=&amp] £[/FONT]425.00 for any of them. just have the one now. It'll see me out I think.

 

[J DAVISON]

Mine field springs to mind
atb jay

 

[Coolhand]

Karamojo Bell used a .275/7 x 57 on everything from flying ducks (yes ducks) to elephants. How is that for versatility!!

David.

W.D.M Bell was the exception not the rule! but I agree and I am biased, 7x57, 7/08, would be my suggestion. Both are superb and if perchance the hunting distance increased both will suffice.

regards
Mike.

 

[Coolhand]

100% on your calibre advice. I've never liked .243" Winchester. Too much damage at close range...say twenty yards...but too little margin for error on larger deer at over 100 yards.

But can't agree Southern on the 'scope. I've always said unless you want a classic vintage 'scope for a classic vintage rifle then buy the best...good basic used Swarovski, Zeiss, S & B etc., that you can afford even if it cost twice, three times the rifle cost. But except for my Laubscher I've never paid more £350 for any stalking rifle. But I'm with you in that I agree that these $2,000 to $3,000 exotics are silly. But a good used top end maker...

Gregor Macleod at Tain will have something under the [FONT=&amp] £[/FONT]500.00 mark...he always is well worth a look for us "Brits". He's never disappointed. Ever. He has a used S & B 6x42 at [FONT=&amp] £[/FONT]120.00 currently.

Even with modern optics being so good I'd still consider a Leupold as an entry level 'scope. The big advantage we have in UK is that decent, quality, Zeiss and the like 3-9x36 and similar, even 3-9x42 are out of "fashion" and can be picked up for often half what they retailed for originally in real terms. I had three Diavari-C 3-9x36 at one time and never paid more that [FONT=&amp] £[/FONT]425.00 for any of them. just have the one now. It'll see me out I think.

I still prefer fixed power scopes but try and find a new one at 4x or 6x !

Mike.