Neddle
Well-Known Member
Then you're comparing apples with oranges and not answering the original questions
204 Ruger
- Thread starter northern1
- Start date
PeterH
Well-Known Member
Hm.. but the OP was talking fox shooting. Of course the 223 is a great rifle and with the right twist/bullet is capable out to 1000 yds
Overlay
Well-Known Member
I’m out very regularly every week on foxes and have done for years, my calibres I always have with me
. 222 with a 35grn V Max and the .22 hornet 40 grn SP no runners out to 240 yds with the Duce and the hornet is a superb caliber for me under a 100 yds with any shot placement
i have a 17 hornet that bowls rabbits over well over 200 yds and I've grassed a few foxes under a with a less than a100 yds head shots, not had the hornet as long as the others but a cracking long range caliber, although i cant see me shooting a fox side on, not tooooo sure of its capabilities yet
my choice would be as above as they are proven and have no recoil, low noise and incredibly accurate, find the one your happy with is the important thing
. 222 with a 35grn V Max and the .22 hornet 40 grn SP no runners out to 240 yds with the Duce and the hornet is a superb caliber for me under a 100 yds with any shot placement
i have a 17 hornet that bowls rabbits over well over 200 yds and I've grassed a few foxes under a with a less than a100 yds head shots, not had the hornet as long as the others but a cracking long range caliber, although i cant see me shooting a fox side on, not tooooo sure of its capabilities yet
my choice would be as above as they are proven and have no recoil, low noise and incredibly accurate, find the one your happy with is the important thing
Neddle
Well-Known Member
I owned and shot all centrefires up to and including a 22Swift,im not just quoting data out of books here, but talking frim practical experience, the original post was in relation as too was a 204 Ruger fox capable, I can assure you it's is, as too a 223 being capable out too 1000yds,on paper possibly, not many shooters taking foxes beyond 300yds on a regular basis, most are well below 200 yds, myself id say an average of 150yds.
Have a read of any of the threads that sir slots alot has written about the 204 vs 223 for real world testing and make your own mind up.
I had both and still own the 223, shot it almost weekly over the last 7 years and cant see me being without it, although i do get an itch for a 22-250 but think i will keep the 223 until it dies.
www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk
I had both and still own the 223, shot it almost weekly over the last 7 years and cant see me being without it, although i do get an itch for a 22-250 but think i will keep the 223 until it dies.
223 or 204
Looking too upgrade my rifle too 223 or 204 for foxes which would be best and looking for recommendations on a good foxing lamp thank you
www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk
I take foxes with a .204 Howa 1500 and wouldn't change it unless I won the lottery (at which point I'd buy a stainless Tikka in .204 instead, and that's only because I'm yet to see Sako do a .204)
32 grain V-max bullets do all you need to do and more on Charlie if you put them where it matters. A LOT of foxes could vouch for that fact since I got the rifle a few years back.
I don't change mag or turrets on the scope as I prefer to leave well alone and learn adjustments using mil-dots. A 100yd zero means I'm aiming high by 0.2 mil dots at 200 and 0.6 mil dots at 300yds. 500 yds is only a 2 dot lift. With a 1/2 mil dot reticule the adjustments are easy to judge and very few foxes inside 400yds ever hear the bang
Yep, the .223 is legal for small deer and .204 is not, but the OP asked about a foxing rifle and that's the question I'm answering.
If the OP is ever up my way (Northants) he'd be welcome to come and put a bit of lead down the tube and see for himself.
As for lamps, I was using a red Tracer scope mounted lamp, but have recently changed to a scope mounted Sniper Hog with a red pill and it's an amazingly good beam of light. Now using the Tracer as a hand-held spotter.
32 grain V-max bullets do all you need to do and more on Charlie if you put them where it matters. A LOT of foxes could vouch for that fact since I got the rifle a few years back.
I don't change mag or turrets on the scope as I prefer to leave well alone and learn adjustments using mil-dots. A 100yd zero means I'm aiming high by 0.2 mil dots at 200 and 0.6 mil dots at 300yds. 500 yds is only a 2 dot lift. With a 1/2 mil dot reticule the adjustments are easy to judge and very few foxes inside 400yds ever hear the bang
Yep, the .223 is legal for small deer and .204 is not, but the OP asked about a foxing rifle and that's the question I'm answering.
If the OP is ever up my way (Northants) he'd be welcome to come and put a bit of lead down the tube and see for himself.
As for lamps, I was using a red Tracer scope mounted lamp, but have recently changed to a scope mounted Sniper Hog with a red pill and it's an amazingly good beam of light. Now using the Tracer as a hand-held spotter.
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
Well documented peer reviewed? No, I remember the thread that you refer to. The conclusion is one drawn by those who either need a deer legal fox rifle. Or those who have never actually owned a 20 calibre rifle.
I have both 20 cal (20 Tac) and 224 calibre rifles. Quite frankly the difference between the two using 40 grain Vmax is more akin to the 22-250 vs 223.
While drop is quoted by many and slight differences being no reason to use the 204 as opposed to the more versatile 223.
However that is not the whole story, it is wind drift that leads to more misses than drop alone.
The smaller calibre bullets drift less in the wind, it is after all the reason behind the success of many cartridges that use long for calibre bullets.
As for terminal ballistics I can attest to the fact that the 40 Vmax from the 20 cal is not equal to the 224 cal one. I very rarely get an exit in the usual sense with the 20. While I usually get an exit with the 224 version.
As an out and out vermin rifle a 204/20 calibre rifle is hard to beat. If that wasn’t the case there wouldn’t be such a proliferation of 204 calibre cartridges used/designed for varminting in the States.
Get one Northern 1, You wont be disappointed, They are an excellent gun and really are nice to shoot, Ive got a T3X with Ward Thermal scope and put a GRS bifrost stock on it and love the gun, I go out just about every night when I'm home and it has accounted for a lot of foxes.
You will always get different opinions, 22-250, 223, etc etc, I can only speak from my experience with the 204, My mate who also comes out with me who's a member on here also put straight in for a variation to get one once he came out with me.
Neddle
Well-Known Member
Not many shooting foxes as in OP @ 1000yds,not even Rips tries it
Neddle
Well-Known Member
Northern 1, sometimes it's best to be a free spirit and do your own thing not just run with the herd. I've a T3 lite and a supervarmint here, both have taken foxes at 300yds,had a headshot at 280yds at the weekend, dropped like a stone.
Overlay
Well-Known Member
No doubt about the 204 as a fox calibre, but they are plenty of different calibres out there that do the job admirably, for me it's the 222 bearing in mind I don't shoot in excess of 200 yds ish which for me is far enough some guys on here successfully shoot the 22 hornet to ranges of a 222, it's not for me, I'm happy with what I've got and the range I shoot out to my set limits and capabilities
It's good the OP is asking about the different experiences/calibres, I've shot most calibres including 223 and the 204 and I happily settled on the duce and hornet as my go to foxing kit because it suits what i do and both are easy to homeload if you want, low noise and factory ammo is a reasonable price and easy to find
Thats what suits me, hopefully the OP will find the right calibre and enjoy his shooting
Neddle
Well-Known Member
Well said, i feed my T3 on 39gr BK my son feeds his 32gr BK, both have killed foxes beyond 300yds easilyI take foxes with a .204 Howa 1500 and wouldn't change it unless I won the lottery (at which point I'd buy a stainless Tikka in .204 instead, and that's only because I'm yet to see Sako do a .204)
32 grain V-max bullets do all you need to do and more on Charlie if you put them where it matters. A LOT of foxes could vouch for that fact since I got the rifle a few years back.
I don't change mag or turrets on the scope as I prefer to leave well alone and learn adjustments using mil-dots. A 100yd zero means I'm aiming high by 0.2 mil dots at 200 and 0.6 mil dots at 300yds. 500 yds is only a 2 dot lift. With a 1/2 mil dot reticule the adjustments are easy to judge and very few foxes inside 400yds ever hear the bang
Yep, the .223 is legal for small deer and .204 is not, but the OP asked about a foxing rifle and that's the question I'm answering.
If the OP is ever up my way (Northants) he'd be welcome to come and put a bit of lead down the tube and see for himself.
As for lamps, I was using a red Tracer scope mounted lamp, but have recently changed to a scope mounted Sniper Hog with a red pill and it's an amazingly good beam of light. Now using the Tracer as a hand-held spotter.
I have tried both when out doing a bit target practice and my T3 will happily shoot 39's and 32's with very little in it over 100yds, I still use the 32's for no other reason than a little bit faster.
Neddle
Well-Known Member
I use the 39s as they cheat the wind better, 25.8gr N133, Remmy brass, CCI SRP
Neddle
Well-Known Member
Yet another plus for the 204 is that they do seem to shoot virtually anything you put through them well. When I was sorting out a load for mine I was getting pretty well the same results from whatever load I was trying.
Ttocs
Well-Known Member
[[[[Well documented waste of time , 40grain v max from a 223 beats it handily , easier to obtain more Versatile rifle etc]]]]
40gr from a 223 has a significantly lower bc than a 39/40gr from a 204. So how does it beat it??
I use a 204 so I can use 32gr bullets (even these have a better bc than a .22 40gr) the 32’s are very frangible and must be inherently safer than 40gr bullets.
As to how well a 223 or 204 kill rabbits and foxes, it would be foolish to suggest there was any observable difference in their abilities at sensible shooting ranges.
I also regularly use a 22 Hornet for fox and rabbit up to 200y using 40gr V-Max, it’s also a very efficient killer and I’ve never had a runner. It’s no 223 or 204 but it’s cheep to reload, quieter and has less recoil, so it has its place.
The 204 can use a lighter bullet more efficiently than a 223, and that’s why I use one. I have a 17 REM too, again it’s 20gr bullet drops foxes and rabbits like they’ve been struck by lightning.
Small calibers shooting light weight frangible bullets have their place. They probably don’t have the flexibility of the 223 but, for most of us, that’s a great excuse for more toys. If you want one and have a use for it, indulge yourself - it’s the only way to satisfy that itch.
N
40gr from a 223 has a significantly lower bc than a 39/40gr from a 204. So how does it beat it??
I use a 204 so I can use 32gr bullets (even these have a better bc than a .22 40gr) the 32’s are very frangible and must be inherently safer than 40gr bullets.
As to how well a 223 or 204 kill rabbits and foxes, it would be foolish to suggest there was any observable difference in their abilities at sensible shooting ranges.
I also regularly use a 22 Hornet for fox and rabbit up to 200y using 40gr V-Max, it’s also a very efficient killer and I’ve never had a runner. It’s no 223 or 204 but it’s cheep to reload, quieter and has less recoil, so it has its place.
The 204 can use a lighter bullet more efficiently than a 223, and that’s why I use one. I have a 17 REM too, again it’s 20gr bullet drops foxes and rabbits like they’ve been struck by lightning.
Small calibers shooting light weight frangible bullets have their place. They probably don’t have the flexibility of the 223 but, for most of us, that’s a great excuse for more toys. If you want one and have a use for it, indulge yourself - it’s the only way to satisfy that itch.
N
I had a 204 for a while, while I thought it was an amazing capable little round for a short time.... but after having to go find foxes the following morning all perfectly shot in the engine room 90% would run on. That’s with 32grain, 39grain, and 40 grain bullets.
For me it would be a ideal gun for longer range crows, magpie etc. I got rid of the 204 after a year. And got a 6mmAI then another so I now have two, one heavy and one light, both are now on there second barrel, I’m pushing a 87grain bullet @3670fps and I’ve only had four foxes run on after being shot, out of around 8-900. I have my heavy 6mm as my everyday “truck gun” and shoot everything from rats, squirrels, magpie, crows etc on a near daily basis.
For me it would be a ideal gun for longer range crows, magpie etc. I got rid of the 204 after a year. And got a 6mmAI then another so I now have two, one heavy and one light, both are now on there second barrel, I’m pushing a 87grain bullet @3670fps and I’ve only had four foxes run on after being shot, out of around 8-900. I have my heavy 6mm as my everyday “truck gun” and shoot everything from rats, squirrels, magpie, crows etc on a near daily basis.
howa243
Well-Known Member
Would struggle to disagree more. It is a brilliant round.
the prowler
Well-Known Member
I own 2x 223 and also a 204 ruger. And as for the original first post. (is the 204 good on fox?) Yes 204 is great for fox. But I do prefer the 39blitzkings.
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