.204
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To be honest I shoot for my freezer and friends and family, will I shoot many with the .204? depends on which rifle is currently my goto gun, atm it is the .222 BSACF2 old but a tack driver out to and beyond 250 yards. My stalking is over 3,000 acres of private farmland with copses that hold a good number of roe, I also go out with friends but being a dairyman my spare time is limited, Boar, sika and fallow are not that far away and moving ever closer as the Galloway forrest is only a stones throw away. Ive just loaded a few rounds for the new .22-250 which will probably be my next goto gun and not forgetting the ever faithfull A-bolt in .270....Distances vary but usually out to 250 yards but I have taken the odd injured deer father out as I didn't want to risk spooking them. Why the .204? because it sparked my interest and like the ATN X-sight I bought (since passed on as it was *****) once something has my attention I just need to scratch that itch..If after the first 2 deer I shoot I lose them both then I will think again..but like my comments above with the .243, it became a tried and tested red deer calibre only after people tried and tested it. The .204 has only been around for 13 years and after using my mates on foxes, I can see the potential for roe with the correct bullet....
howa243
Well-Known Member
Not convinced that this is the best way to win the argument.
But I'm not expecting to lose them as I feel its plenty gun enough for roe. More energy with like for like bullet weight than .222/.223.
edit: its not about winning the argument....as it is going to happen regardless lol
re-edit...you can pick one line out of any comment and give it a whole new meaning...do you work for the Sun? Daily Mirror?
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SussexFallow
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Yes 204 was my go to gun with nv for foxes for the last couple of years. I put a lot through it and it never let me down. Neither did the 223 or now my 243 which would be my preference for roe
straightpull6547
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Can you post a link to where it is confirmed as legal for roe in scotland please? Just because nowhere says its illegal, doesnt mean that its legal.
It's not something I'd do but I'm a big bore kind of guy. As has been said, 55gr Berger seems the only option.
As regards energy figures, like for like bullet weight, 223 beats 204 according to http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/node
It's often the case that as you increase calibre you increase velocity/energy simply due to the increased base area. Just look at 7mm Rem Mag up to 458 Win Mag, steady increase in potency.
However, what would be about 100 ft-lbs Max increase I can't see it being a real difference.
As I have said, I wouldn't do it and personally I don't think it'll be better than 223 and could be worse. Finding a suitable bullet would be the tricky part. The smaller frontal area will very likely transfer energy slower.
But it's not me, not my money, and not my conscience. Just prepare yourself for the worst, find someone with a dog who can track the deer if it doesn't work. It's not been done before and you could be a trailblazer and you could just as likely be the example that everyone states to show it's a bad idea.
If you go ahead just make make sure you plan for all possible scenarios so the deer don't suffer from you trying out something new. Also, I know you're just defending your views but your relatively confrontational responses on here won't help you if you do wish to have people listen to you and your good experiences should you have them.
As regards energy figures, like for like bullet weight, 223 beats 204 according to http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/node
It's often the case that as you increase calibre you increase velocity/energy simply due to the increased base area. Just look at 7mm Rem Mag up to 458 Win Mag, steady increase in potency.
However, what would be about 100 ft-lbs Max increase I can't see it being a real difference.
As I have said, I wouldn't do it and personally I don't think it'll be better than 223 and could be worse. Finding a suitable bullet would be the tricky part. The smaller frontal area will very likely transfer energy slower.
But it's not me, not my money, and not my conscience. Just prepare yourself for the worst, find someone with a dog who can track the deer if it doesn't work. It's not been done before and you could be a trailblazer and you could just as likely be the example that everyone states to show it's a bad idea.
If you go ahead just make make sure you plan for all possible scenarios so the deer don't suffer from you trying out something new. Also, I know you're just defending your views but your relatively confrontational responses on here won't help you if you do wish to have people listen to you and your good experiences should you have them.
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I just came on asking if anyone knew of a .20cal 50gr soft point and got slated..again if .22 cf's were suddenly made legal for roe in Englandshire how many would switch from the .243? Or would the argument be 'can't use those...its not right and proper!' I agree I have become confrontational as more and more jump in for a nip..nature of the beast I guess. edit I have a wee cocker that can track.
No its just legal..I have seen conformation from police Scotland.
I see your point, but nobody knows you, they don't know you're not an idiot with zero understanding. What has happened is that people with their own experiences have chimed in to say it's a bad idea in case you are such an idiot, although I don't think this is the case. Fact is, nobody knows, it's all opinion and you surely must have known it would be controversial.
I am sure I would get similar comments if I asked "which 750gr 50 BMG bullet for red"
The Home office is guidance purely that, guidance for licensing authorities, the title of the table in the guidance is also very explicit to its purpose 'The purpose of this table is as a guide to establish initial “good reason”.' You, and far too many other people think, incorrectly, that the table constitutes minimum calibres legally allowed, it isn't, its a reference for licencing authorities to refer to when establishing good reason to possess as certain calibre. The only quarry that have legal minimum are deer and seals so why do the other quarry feature in the list? Equally according to your argument no one would be able to use a .204 for fox either, only vermin.
Thankyou...I have been around in here for a while...not posted much..my last post was about the death of my father last May due to a mistake by a surgeon..It is still ongoing, with a Chief superintendent of Manchester police fronting an investigation and still waiting for the coroners inquest...been long and drawn out...but I digress..thanks for the positive comments.
Condolences for the loss of your father.
I think that a 50gr Brass/Copper bullet with a high BC would be too long to stabilise even in a fast twist barrel.
I've just had a look at GS website and they do a 34gr HV bullet - you'd need to add about 6mm of cylindrical section to the bullet to make it 50gr which would be a 23mm long bullet - not sure how that compares with the LR Berger bullet lengths.
GS CUSTOM USA - Bullet Technical Profile
GS Custom or another manufacturer would possibly make them for you.
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straightpull6547
Well-Known Member
Where please?
The relevant legislation is the Deer (Firearmsetc.) (Scotland) Order 1985 Google
For roe deer, there is no specified minimum calibre, only minimum bullet weight, muzzle velocity and muzzle energy.
Therefore any bullet (irrespective of the rifle it comes out of) that meets the requirements of the legislation is legal.
Whether or not it's sensible or ethical is a different question.
Cheers
Bruce
Sinistral
Well-Known Member
The Berger .204 50gr was dropped almost 5 years ago, so no point in banging on about this any more.
There is only a 55gr left in the line-up which a 1:10 will not shoot.
Can we have an end to this now?
http://www.bergerbullets.com/discontinued-bullets/
http://www.bergerbullets.com/products/all-bullets/
http://buybergerbullets.3dcartstores.com/20-Cal-55-Gr-Long-Range-BT-Varmint_p_15.html
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