.222 opinions?

[Smellydog]

60gr going that quick? Blimey, that's good. A slightly over max charge of N130 pushes a 50gr Sierra Blitz bullet to around 3120fps for me. That was measured on a Labradar at Bisley, too, so I guess accurate. I wonder if my barrel is particularly slow?!

Nope, you are following book charges that over the years seem to get lower and lower.
My 55 gn ballistic tips use to be 3200plus and I thought it was slow!

A friend of mine had his 222 doing 3940fps with 40gn ballistic tips.
No dangerous pressure but high pressure. Brass only lasted about three reloads.

 

[WSSX]

Nope, you are following book charges that over the years seem to get lower and lower.
My 55 gn ballistic tips use to be 3200plus and I thought it was slow!

A friend of mine had his 222 doing 3940fps with 40gn ballistic tips.
No dangerous pressure but high pressure. Brass only lasted about three reloads.

The thing is, I'm not - I'm over max with that 50gr load. Not by much, admittedly, but I'm over it - 21.8gr of N130 when the Viht max is 21.5gr. They're using a 23in test barrel and apparently getting 3235fps at their max, so another 100-odd fps despite the smaller charge. Bit of optimism mixed with ideal conditions and a few extra inches of barrel

I never worked up to any pressure signs so I guess I could push it harder but it shoots very well as is, including out to 300 yards at Bisley. Maybe one to mull over on a rainy day...

 

[Smellydog]

The thing is, I'm not - I'm over max with that 50gr load. Not by much, admittedly, but I'm over it - 21.8gr of N130 when the Viht max is 21.5gr. They're using a 23in test barrel and apparently getting 3235fps at their max, so another 100-odd fps despite the smaller charge. Bit of optimism mixed with ideal conditions and a few extra inches of barrel

I never worked up to any pressure signs so I guess I could push it harder but it shoots very well as is, including out to 300 yards at Bisley. Maybe one to mull over on a rainy day...

Yes mate. Book is always going to be litigation free.
Years ago we read our brass. We would make the brass head above the rim to make sure we measure the same point. If the brass grew less than .004" per shot we knew we were safe with that lot of brass. Obviously the closer we got 4thou increase the shorter the brass life but the point is we built our loads around the particular rifle. Data is built around the lowest denominator, to be free from accusation if you like.
Some manuals would even state how their max loads are a value under industry max!
My friends load doing 3940fps x 40gn bullet I could never reach in my 222.
It was a clear observation of how every rifle is different.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

deer don't come with chronos....

 

[NP435]

Yes mate. Book is always going to be litigation free.
Years ago we read our brass. We would make the brass head above the rim to make sure we measure the same point. If the brass grew less than .004" per shot we knew we were safe with that lot of brass. Obviously the closer we got 4thou increase the shorter the brass life but the point is we built our loads around the particular rifle. Data is built around the lowest denominator, to be free from accusation if you like.
Some manuals would even state how their max loads are a value under industry max!
My friends load doing 3940fps x 40gn bullet I could never reach in my 222.
It was a clear observation of how every rifle is different.

I must ask what manual states that?

 

[Smellydog]

I must ask what manual states that?

I don't have it anymore.
It was one of the Speer manuals. I don't know the edition. It was twenty or more years ago now.

 

[Cottis]

Yes mate. Book is always going to be litigation free.
Years ago we read our brass. We would make the brass head above the rim to make sure we measure the same point. If the brass grew less than .004" per shot we knew we were safe with that lot of brass. Obviously the closer we got 4thou increase the shorter the brass life but the point is we built our loads around the particular rifle. Data is built around the lowest denominator, to be free from accusation if you like.
Some manuals would even state how their max loads are a value under industry max!
My friends load doing 3940fps x 40gn bullet I could never reach in my 222.
It was a clear observation of how every rifle is different.

Certainly all rifles can be different and book data is not necessarily designed to keep the author away from litigation. They are designed as an average after much testing and experience by powder and/or bullet manufacturers but the onus is always on the user to know what they are doing and to take responsibility for the way they work up loads.

For example, I have a .243win rifle that develops enough pressure to push a 100grain bullet over the 2850fps mark while being under the starting point for Vihts data when combining the 100g pro hunter and N160, a match that many will say is made in heaven.

Many people will be happily north of 40grains of N160 and will see no issues and a decent amount of performance. My rifle starts showing ejector marks at 37grains. The load is supremely accurate. No idea if it has a tight chamber and/or bore but the only certainty is that you have too little pressure, enough pressure or too much pressure. How you get about realising the end result is up to the user, not the book.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Really?
Have to be a bloody anaemic load to drop below legal limit?

Sub 3000fps with a 50gr is seriously slow

You've got as much risk running under the limit with your 20” 243 and some 100gr factory.
3 out of 10 factory options i chrono’d in the spring didn’t make 1750ftlbs…

Aye but some of us don’t do very fast - because we don’t need to for our intended quarry e.g. foxes. The point I was trying to make in my own clumsy way is the beloved triple deuce is potentially borderline for the scottish homeloader or indeed for anyone using it in Scotland. For example my go-to load of 50gns over 19.gns of Viht 120 clipping along at say 2,900 fps gives 933 ft lbs and is therefore sub-1000ft lbs (from memory - dangerous!) but with a 55 gns Sierra at the same speed is just in at 1027ft lbs! Take 50 fps off that and it comes in at 992 ft lbs and is thus “illegal”. Those with more recollection than I may well correct me and of course I am happy that they can. All that said I have dropped roe dead in their tracks with my own recipes and I suspect many, many Australian/New Zealand hunters can attest to the triple’s efficacy for species much larger than roe.
Of course my friend assures me that the chances of being “caught” for such an infringement are somewhat remote…..

 

[User00036]

Aye but some of us don’t do very fast - because we don’t need to for our intended quarry e.g. foxes. The point I was trying to make in my own clumsy way is the beloved triple deuce is potentially borderline for the scottish homeloader or indeed for anyone using it in Scotland. For example my go-to load of 50gns over 19.gns of Viht 120 clipping along at say 2,900 fps gives 933 ft lbs and is therefore sub-1000ft lbs (from memory - dangerous!) but with a 55 gns Sierra at the same speed is just in at 1027ft lbs! Take 50 fps off that and it comes in at 992 ft lbs and is thus “illegal”. Those with more recollection than I may well correct me and of course I am happy that they can. All that said I have dropped roe dead in their tracks with my own recipes and I suspect many, many Australian/New Zealand hunters can attest to the triple’s efficacy for species much larger than roe.
Of course my friend assures me that the chances of being “caught” for such an infringement are somewhat remote…..

Worked for a while in NZ with a fencing contractor. He always carried a triple in his pickup. I used it on several occasions for reds, at sensible ranges they dropped on the spot, or next to it. Ammo was Norma factory soft point 50 gr. Rated at around 3200. NZ Reds are a heavy beast.

 

[Neddle]

Just a wee point for you and any other triple deuce owners - if you intend to shoot roe in Scotland with God’s own calibre you need to be careful in your choice of “recipe” because you may well fall short of the required kinetic energy required by law - 1000 ft lbs if I recall.

Does any actually check this?

 

[User00040]

Does any actually check this?

No

 

[Neddle]

No

I did wonder

 

[NP435]

I don't have it anymore.
It was one of the Speer manuals. I don't know the edition. It was twenty or more years ago now.

My oldest is Speer13 and that has been with me from about 2003, now I must locate the no 12 and 11 and check them. From my experience Speer/ATK tend to be very conservative based on data from other published sources.

 

[Smellydog]

My oldest is Speer13 and that has been with me from about 2003, now I must locate the no 12 and 11 and check them. From my experience Speer/ATK tend to be very conservative based on data from other published sources.

It may of been #13.
In some of the comments, not all iirc that they sometimes said that the loads listed were below sammi spec for a given cartridge.
Iirc the comments for 222 mention the lower service pressure due to some weaker actions.
Have a look for me please.

I seem to recall some data, possibly Hodgedens sometimes listing max charges for some metallic cartridges right upto if not just over the sammi limits.
It's been a while etc.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Just wait til Kim Jong thinks of it…….

 

[wildfowler.250]

Cheers guys. Lots of good info on here. Nice to see the .222 still has a strong following.

I have to say I enjoy the fact that it’s quieter above everything else!

 

[wildfowler.250]

My fox load was 45gr sbk at 21.something

I have foolishly been out of the 222 fold as someone offered me too much money for my old sako

Sold it? That was a surprise reply. Glad to see you picked up another though!


Interesting to see that a lot of folk tend to load at the lower end of the powder charges than the higher. Usually in other calibers most folk seem to try and get that little bit more oomph but I suppose that may come down to a mild vermin caliber vs a deer rifle

 

[HandB]

I get about 3150fps with 55gr bullets and 22gr of N130 in my 1954 BSA Hunter .222 which has a badly pitted 24 inch barrel. That is 1gr of powder over book max but it doesn't suffer pressure signs and groups just over 1MOA at 600yds which is good enough for me.

 

[RCS Deer Management]

I’m shooting 50gr sierra bk at 3250 fps from 21.8gr of n-130

 

[WSSX]

I’m shooting 50gr sierra bk at 3250 fps from 21.8gr of n-130

So the same load as me but getting 100+fps more from it. Longer barrel presumably?