270 or 308

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Andy Mauthe said:
Must you have government approval for each firearm purchase? And are there quantity limits?
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Oh yes.

Long story short: you first apply for a licence (Firearms Certificate), listing exactly what you want to get and why you should be allowed to have it. By which I mean you specify 1 x .243 for deer and vermin control on x land; 1 x .308 for deer control on y land etc etc. You have to explain why you need each one (give ‘good reason’). They phone the landowners you have listed to make sure you actually have permission to shoot there, and they do a bunch of background checks, interview you, talk to two referees you nominate, do a home security check, and get your doctor to sign off on you. This can take months.

If they decide you have ‘good reason’ to be allowed to have that, you get the licence, with one ‘slot’ per rifle you asked for. For a beginner starting out, they like to restrict you to one rimfire, one .22 centrefire and one medium deer rifle (and they generally don’t like granting anything bigger than 6.5 at that stage).

You buy one gun per slot, and inform them of the purchase and the serial number.

If you sell one, and you want to replace it, you have to ask for the slot on your license to be re-opened. This is usually quick - a few days at most. But it still involves sending in your old license and getting a new one back with a fresh empty slot.

If you want to add a gun, you have to apply, almost as before: you explain what you want and why you need it. They don’t like giving you authority to have multiple guns that are similar. So if you have a .308, you need to come up with a reason why a .270 is sufficiently different to justify being allowed another gun. Adding a new slot to a license can be very slow: in Scotland, they can take up to 16 weeks. And you pay a fee.

In terms of absolute numbers, there’s no official limit (as far as I know), provided you can give a good reason for everything you have. However, there is a threshold (I think around 9 guns) where they start asking for additional security in your house.

This is a large part of why you see so many ‘is x better than y’ threads on here: it’s slow, tedious, difficult and costly to just get both.

Note that this all applies for rifles. The rules for shotguns are simpler. Once you have the license, you can buy as many as you want. You just need to tell them each time you buy and sell.

Curiously for the North Americans, it’s very easy for us to get sound moderators: if you have a slot for a rifle, it’s more or less automatic that you can get a slot for a moderator to go with it. So almost everyone has them.
 
Mungo said:
Oh yes.

Long story short: you first apply for a licence (Firearms Certificate), listing exactly what you want to get and why you should be allowed to have it. By which I mean you specify 1 x .243 for deer and vermin control on x land; 1 x .308 for deer control on y land etc etc. You have to explain why you need each one (give ‘good reason’). They phone the landowners you have listed to make sure you actually have permission to shoot there, and they do a bunch of background checks, interview you, talk to two referees you nominate, do a home security check, and get your doctor to sign off on you. This can take months.

If they decide you have ‘good reason’ to be allowed to have that, you get the licence, with one ‘slot’ per rifle you asked for. For a beginner starting out, they like to restrict you to one rimfire, one .22 centrefire and one medium deer rifle (and they generally don’t like granting anything bigger than 6.5 at that stage).

You buy one gun per slot, and inform them of the purchase and the serial number.

If you sell one, and you want to replace it, you have to ask for the slot on your license to be re-opened. This is usually quick - a few days at most. But it still involves sending in your old license and getting a new one back with a fresh empty slot.

If you want to add a gun, you have to apply, almost as before: you explain what you want and why you need it. They don’t like giving you authority to have multiple guns that are similar. So if you have a .308, you need to come up with a reason why a .270 is sufficiently different to justify being allowed another gun. Adding a new slot to a license can be very slow: in Scotland, they can take up to 16 weeks. And you pay a fee.

In terms of absolute numbers, there’s no official limit (as far as I know), provided you can give a good reason for everything you have. However, there is a threshold (I think around 9 guns) where they start asking for additional security in your house.

This is a large part of why you see so many ‘is x better than y’ threads on here: it’s slow, tedious, difficult and costly to just get both.

Note that this all applies for rifles. The rules for shotguns are simpler. Once you have the license, you can buy as many as you want. You just need to tell them each time you buy and sell.

Curiously for the North Americans, it’s very easy for us to get sound moderators: if you have a slot for a rifle, it’s more or less automatic that you can get a slot for a moderator to go with it. So almost everyone has them.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the explanation. It’s too bad it’s so much red tape for you guys. As you probably know, here we can more or less get whatever we want and as many as we want. In Pennsylvania where I’m at, each gun purchase is contingent on a background check which is conducted in real time while you’re at the gun shop. The check is done by our State Police via phone with the shop owner. Essentially, if you’ve no criminal record, then you’re ok to go. Some states (like California and New York) have regulations on certain rifles and magazine capacities. Although these are under court review as being potentially unconstitutional. So yes, it makes sense to me know why I see many this or that threads. And I do find it interesting that you can get moderators like buying a bottle of aspirin 😂. Here, the process has gotten more streamlined as I am getting ready to go through getting a moderator myself. The only problem is that it takes about 7-9 months for the paperwork to go through. Once again, if you’ve no criminal record, you will get approved. It just takes time. But there’s no need to justify nor quantity limits. Do they also make state lands available for hunting? If you don’t know an amenable land owner? We have State Game Lands here where we can hunt if we don’t have private land available to do so.
 
Andy Mauthe said:
Thanks for the explanation. It’s too bad it’s so much red tape for you guys. As you probably know, here we can more or less get whatever we want and as many as we want. In Pennsylvania where I’m at, each gun purchase is contingent on a background check which is conducted in real time while you’re at the gun shop. The check is done by our State Police via phone with the shop owner. Essentially, if you’ve no criminal record, then you’re ok to go. Some states (like California and New York) have regulations on certain rifles and magazine capacities. Although these are under court review as being potentially unconstitutional. So yes, it makes sense to me know why I see many this or that threads. And I do find it interesting that you can get moderators like buying a bottle of aspirin 😂. Here, the process has gotten more streamlined as I am getting ready to go through getting a moderator myself. The only problem is that it takes about 7-9 months for the paperwork to go through. Once again, if you’ve no criminal record, you will get approved. It just takes time. But there’s no need to justify nor quantity limits. Do they also make state lands available for hunting? If you don’t know an amenable land owner? We have State Game Lands here where we can hunt if we don’t have private land available to do so.
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There are large areas of government owned land where hunting takes place, but it’s completely different to the US. There is nothing like the tag system you have where anyone who has a gun and hunting license can get access.

Again, it’s fearsomely complicated. In very simple terms, the bulk of ‘hunting’ on state land is pest control. It is either done by paid contractors who are given quotas to fill on defined areas, and only they have access. Or it is leased to individuals or syndicates, who pay for exclusive access to an area.

If you don’t know a landowner, you can still get a license if you can show evidence of booking hunts with guides or estates.

Access to land is an extremely contentious issue, and there is a huge amount of skullduggery that goes on!
 
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Mungo said:
There are large areas of government owned land where hunting takes place, but it’s completely different to the US. There is nothing like the tag system you have where anyone who has a gun and hunting license can get access.

Again, it’s fearsomely complicated. In very simple terms, the bulk of ‘hunting’ on state land is pest control. It is either done by paid contractors who are given quotas to fill on defined areas, and only they have access. Or it is leased to individuals or syndicates, who pay for exclusive access to an area.

If you don’t know a landowner, you can still get a license if you can show evidence of booking hunts with guides or estates.

Access to land is an extremely contentious issue, and there is a huge amount of skullduggery that goes on!
Click to expand...
It’s definitely interesting to see how different things are. Our public hunting lad is paid for with our taxes and our licenses so it only seems right that it’s accessible by those who fund it. Also I was curious about gun ownership if you’re not a hunter? What if you just want to collect and shoot firearms? Hunting is certainly a reason to own guns but at least here, there are many others.
 
Andy Mauthe said:
It’s definitely interesting to see how different things are. Our public hunting lad is paid for with our taxes and our licenses so it only seems right that it’s accessible by those who fund it. Also I was curious about gun ownership if you’re not a hunter? What if you just want to collect and shoot firearms? Hunting is certainly a reason to own guns but at least here, there are many others.
Click to expand...
The irony here is that our taxes pay for the public land AND pay the contractors who shoot the deer on it. In fact, pay them an enormous amount.

On the other hand, other than for hunting, we are allowed anywhere - even on private land. Scotland has laws that mean you can hike or camp anywhere, with very few restrictions.

Re. Owning guns for other reasons. Yes - you can own them for target shooting, but then must be a member of a club or range. I’m not sure what the rules are on collecting, though I have a feeling they’re quite restrictive, and possibly only apply to historical firearms.

You absolutely cannot own them ‘just to shoot them’. And self defence is categorically ruled out as a good reason.

And wait til you hear about our seasons and bag limits…

We have much, much longer deer seasons than you. In Scotland, there is now no closed season on any male deer at all. Even in England, the open seasons are long - 4 to 8 months, depending on species. You can shoot some sort of deer any day of the year. And there are no formal bag limits: it’s up to the landowner. It’s not uncommon for a recreational stalker to shoot 20-30 a year. There are a lot of people who have stalking as a side gig (we can sell venison), shooting 50-100 a year (I’m one of these). And there are the full time contractors who shoot hundreds and hundreds a year.
 
Mungo said:
The irony here is that our taxes pay for the public land AND pay the contractors who shoot the deer on it. In fact, pay them an enormous amount.

On the other hand, other than for hunting, we are allowed anywhere - even on private land. Scotland has laws that mean you can hike or camp anywhere, with very few restrictions.

Re. Owning guns for other reasons. Yes - you can own them for target shooting, but then must be a member of a club or range. I’m not sure what the rules are on collecting, though I have a feeling they’re quite restrictive, and possibly only apply to historical firearms.

You absolutely cannot own them ‘just to shoot them’. And self defence is categorically ruled out as a good reason.

And wait til you hear about our seasons and bag limits…

We have much, much longer deer seasons than you. In Scotland, there is now no closed season on any male deer at all. Even in England, the open seasons are long - 4 to 8 months, depending on species. You can shoot some sort of deer any day of the year. And there are no formal bag limits: it’s up to the landowner. It’s not uncommon for a recreational stalker to shoot 20-30 a year. There are a lot of people who have stalking as a side gig (we can sell venison), shooting 50-100 a year (I’m one of these). And there are the full time contractors who shoot hundreds and hundreds a year.
Click to expand...
Well, I’m only subject to the ownership “limits” set by my wife 😂. I did recently sell a Sako model 75 to make the acquisition of an Anschutz 6.5 Creedmoor less troublesome on the home front. I really liked the Sako, and it was a beautiful rifle with excellent wood. But I could never get it to shoot as well as I felt it should. So it went away and there’s an Anschutz 1782 in its place. Happy to report that it’s a real shooter right out of the gate and it’s not fully run in yet.
 
Is there a consensus on optimal barrel length for .270............or at least something along the lines of "don't make it too short/make sure it's minimum 24'" etc.?
 
I've a 21 inch barrel on my .270. Unmoderated it's loud and kicks hard. With the silencer fitted it kicks the same as my .308 with a 22 inch barrel but is noticeably flatter shooting.
 
I have seen charts for different calibers that show the effect of barrel length on velocity. Each caliber is different regarding how barrel length impacts velocity due to different cartridge geometry and what powders are used (slow burning powders require longer tubes to achieve full velocity). Let me see if I can find a chart for the .270 Win, and I’ll post it for reference.
 
www.gunmart.net

270 Calibre Barrel Reductions

Bruce Potts considers cutting down a rifle in that most misunderstood cartridge, the 270 Winchester
www.gunmart.net www.gunmart.net

I've got a 20" barrel on a .270. I have a lightweight DPT moderator on it, and it is absolutely fine to shoot.

Federal 130gr is 2870ft/s
Norma 130gr is 2930ft/s
 
www.gunmart.net

270 Calibre Barrel Reductions

Bruce Potts considers cutting down a rifle in that most misunderstood cartridge, the 270 Winchester
www.gunmart.net www.gunmart.net
Here’s a good read on this topic. Unfortunately he didn’t make a chart. But you can read the numbers from his experiment. Seems that the .270 is a good candidate for shorter barrels, within reason, with minimal impact on velocity.
 
Basically any deer legal calibre is fine and deer at normal ranges will struggle to tell the difference.
So get whatever you want. Personally I think the twist rate of both calibres is in the dark ages for copper and I’d get a modern cartridge like a prc or an old cartridge with a faster twist like my 6.5x55. Old ghillies grumble till they see how dead the deer is, but that’s the bullet more than the calibre.
 
Alhamand said:
It would seem that both calibres are fine. I am currently looking to move on from a .243 and talked to a gun shop (whom I respect and who sold me the .243) and asked a). if they would take the .243 as part-exchange and b). what (.270 or .308) sold more...thus to give me a practical idea of what (in Scotland) people are actually buying/using. The reply to a). was possibly...or not...because due to the new bullet rules etc. not that many people were now looking for .243s, so fair enough...I'd quite like to keep it anyway as it's a nice SS Tikka M595. Which was all interesting. And for b). they said they sold perhaps twenty .270s for every .308. Which was again very interesting, and helpful.

I would be shooting reds, and perhaps foxes, but not too far out...say at *max* 200m and probably sub-100m. I want to make the deer drop where it is hit as much as possible. And yes, the bullet placement is king (I have taken plenty reds with the .243 so I have seen what that can do and would not be changing if it were not for the new regulations...and that fact that after a few years one becomes itchy for novelty!).

I think I just might pass the decision to the Firearms Officer (I am up for renewal and in the process now so can list the "to be acquired" calibre on the form) and let them decide if they prefer to give .270 or .308 as then the decision is out of my hands as it seems impossible to decide. I know that might elicit groans but it gets the decision made.

Oh go on...if I had to choose, I think it'd be the .308.

One thing, if I may...a few people seem to suggest that the .270 is "more fun". Why, if I might ask...? Does it go BANG in a different way?! Genuine question.
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Av shot 308 with 123grain it’s good flat shooting round but it still think it’s a very lobby round compaired to the 270.
 
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