30-06 ammo and zero for hill stalking

J111

Well-Known Member
#1
Hi guys,

Just back from a week of hind culling. Amazing week but that's another story.

I've been using 165grain federal fusion doing about 2700fps, zeroed at 150m. This has worked well but I think is not ideal for hill stalking as longer shots involve quite a lot of holdover at extended ranges. I'm using this particular set up as it works great for close range woodland stalking down South with minimal meat damage at the lower velocities and have shot it out to 400m on the range very accurately.

However I can't help but feel that if I could get up to 3000fps it would be way better for next hind culling trip so am thinking of going for something like 150 grain SSTs which should be getting up to 3000fps from my 24" barrell and then zeroing at 200m, which should go 50mm high maximum on the way and 80mm low at 250m.

Any thoughts?
 

diverdave

Well-Known Member
#2
I am using 150gn game kings, going at 2900 fps. with plenty of case space for more should it need a bit more. My scope is a BT and has zero points at 100, 200, 250 and 300 meters, and longest shot was a 335 meter stag, just point and press on the 300 meter setting and it dropped after a jump and run of 10 yards.

I would think your plan would work grand, i am not sure of the drop at 400, it would still be a fair bit though, but ti will certainly have tons of energy and will be grand on hinds
 

NigelM

Well-Known Member
#3
I think you are likely to find you get a lot of carcass damage with SST's at 3000 fps. It will work for sure but I'm not sure many game dealers will thank you. You might want to go for something a little more robust if you're going to send it that quickly. Dave's Game Kings are likely be a better option.

You will be surprised how little effect on drop an extra 300 fps will make. If you want a truly accurate solution for taking shots beyond mpbr then turrets are the way to go. You can then keep the heavier bullet, make less of a mess of the carcass, suffer from less wind drift AND be accurate.

I run a 7mm08 on the hill with a 150 grain ABLR at 2770 using a Swaro Z3 with elevation turret and it dials to 475 meters on a single turn so you can still use the zero stop.
 

big ears

Well-Known Member
#4
Just back from Montana. We shot 180gr partitions out of a 30-06 doing 2600fps. My friend took an elk at 450 yards and I took a mule deer (red deer size) at 320yards. For long range shots you are better with bigger bullets as they hold the energy better and practice to shoot them over the ranges you expect. Accuracy kills not speed.
 

J111

Well-Known Member
#5
Thanks for the input. Yes I can dial my scope and have shot a large hind at 300m this year using this method over in NZ. However, many of the situations I have been in this last week there has been no time to dial and have been using hold over for shots up to 250m, whilst allowing for wind as well successfully. However based on the numbers I have put in you would get 40mm less wind drift at 250m with a 20mph side wind and a bit less drop. Maybe this is a tiny amount relatively but would have thought every little helps. Also I'm only interested in upto say 300m absolute max for this type of hunting situation and the 150 grain would easily have enough energy for red deer at this range.
 
#6
You are going to have to remember drift and drop anyhow so the precise figure doesn't much matter to you and as a result this is not an issue. If you make a mistake in your estimate there is an equal chance of it giving greater drift as there is of it giving less drift, so on one day having additional drift will correct for your error and on another day it will add to your error.
 
#7
Depends where and who you are stalking with, if you are buying days accompanied most pros will not allow you take shots at 300 yards most will limit you to an absolute maximum of around 200.
 

Dalua

Well-Known Member
#8
Wind, rather than drop, is the usual reason not to take long shots.
Dialling-in seems fashionable and popular, but with an ordinary 6x42 (such as mine) it isn't an option.
If you want to change something, I'd suggest working up a new accurate load with 150-165gr standard pointed softpoints of reputable manufacture, and zeroing at 200yds/m. If the MV is more than your current 2700fps, that might be an advantage - but not at the price of accuracy.
Then shoot it at 250 and 300yds/m, see where it goes and make a note. If you can still hold on hair at 300, so much the better - but keep in mind that calves are often much smaller than hinds.
If you can test at 350 and 400, that's good too - but for me personally 300-400yd drops are good to know in case something that another shot might put right has gone wrong with the much-nearer stalked shot.
 
#9
We shot 180gr partitions out of a 30-06 doing 2600fps. My friend took an elk at 450 yards and I took a mule deer (red deer size) at 320yards. For long range shots you are better with bigger bullets as they hold the energy better and practice to shoot them over the ranges you expect.
What he says. Don't forget that the Americans got rid of the 150 grain bullet in the .30-06 as a poor long rang round after WWI and replaced it with a 180 grain bullet. It's only because that was then found to out shoot their range safety templates that they then had to re-adopt the 150 grain bullet loading.

In the much slower .303 Mk VII (a 174 grain bullet at 2,450 fps) in the 'scoped P.14(T) Enfield sniper rifle the British Army's optimal zero (from memory of the Army Manual I had) set for point of aim at 276 yards meant that a bullet aimed at the bridge of the nose was assured to hit between the top of the head and the bottom of the chin from 0 yards out to 425 yards or some such.

Best "long legged" bullet in any cartridge I ever used was the 198 grain in a 8x60S Mauser.
 

J111

Well-Known Member
#11
Wind, rather than drop, is the usual reason not to take long shots.
Dialling-in seems fashionable and popular, but with an ordinary 6x42 (such as mine) it isn't an option.
If you want to change something, I'd suggest working up a new accurate load with 150-165gr standard pointed softpoints of reputable manufacture, and zeroing at 200yds/m. If the MV is more than your current 2700fps, that might be an advantage - but not at the price of accuracy.
Then shoot it at 250 and 300yds/m, see where it goes and make a note. If you can still hold on hair at 300, so much the better - but keep in mind that calves are often much smaller than hinds.
If you can test at 350 and 400, that's good too - but for me personally 300-400yd drops are good to know in case something that another shot might put right has gone wrong with the much-nearer stalked shot.
Agreed. I would do exactly that. I have already done this with my current set up so know my drops etc.
 

J111

Well-Known Member
#12
You are going to have to remember drift and drop anyhow so the precise figure doesn't much matter to you and as a result this is not an issue. If you make a mistake in your estimate there is an equal chance of it giving greater drift as there is of it giving less drift, so on one day having additional drift will correct for your error and on another day it will add to your error.
This is clearly incorrect. If I gave you a 22lr or a 17 hornet to shoot a target at about 100m and you had to estimate the range, wind, and then shoot it, which would you rather have? It's pretty obvious that the flatter and more wind bucking round will on the whole be more likely to hit the target.
Another example is a 200m deer, wind from behind but gusting and flukey and you can't judge what the wind is doing nearer the target so can only aim dead on. The faster, wind bucking round will be deflected less and more likely to result in a clean kill.
 

jb1

Well-Known Member
#13
just wondering???

in days gone by, was there a formula for working out all this Velocity-bullet weight-drop-damage bumph? or did you check zero at 100 yards and then go out stalking.

Just wondering.
 

.25-06

Well-Known Member
#14
just wondering???

in days gone by, was there a formula for working out all this Velocity-bullet weight-drop-damage bumph? or did you check zero at 100 yards and then go out stalking.

Just wondering.
It was called practice. You never go into the field guessing drift & drop at an animal. Neaps, tin plates, golf balls & paper should bear the brunt of the practice
 
#17
Sight in a 180 gr. load 3" high at 100 yards and you will be able to aim dead on out to 300 yards and stay in the kill zone. Should be about 8" low from point of aim at 300 yards. I have been using this sight in for years, works like a charm.
 
#18
This is clearly incorrect. If I gave you a 22lr or a 17 hornet to shoot a target at about 100m and you had to estimate the range, wind, and then shoot it, which would you rather have? It's pretty obvious that the flatter and more wind bucking round will on the whole be more likely to hit the target.
Another example is a 200m deer, wind from behind but gusting and flukey and you can't judge what the wind is doing nearer the target so can only aim dead on. The faster, wind bucking round will be deflected less and more likely to result in a clean kill.
You are correct that in an extreme cases, such as a 22lr, then there will be no questions. However in your initial example where it was different bullets from the same rifle with theoretical differences in impact point of less than 2 inches then it remains the case that, given your 200m deer and gusting and flukey wind, if you fired 100 rounds of each bullet type at a target and someone then pointed at 10 of the bullet holes at random you'd have no greater success than chance in deciding which hole was made by which bullet. As practical experiments have demonstrated your aiming error may well be in excess of 2 inches to start with, add in the accuracy potential of the rifle, factor in errors in range estimation plus the error for which the wind was responsible and you would find the difference in impact point of the two bullets would require their theoretical impact point difference to be much greater than 2 inches before you could, with any degree of certainty, point to a random bullet hole and declare which bullet had made it.

It would be interesting to calculate the difference in theoretical impact point that it would be necessary to achieve before you could ID the bullet strikes with certainty on the paper after the event but that is well beyond my knowledge of the stats involved.
 

Dalua

Well-Known Member
#19
Sight in a 180 gr. load 3" high at 100 yards and you will be able to aim dead on out to 300 yards and stay in the kill zone. Should be about 8" low from point of aim at 300 yards. I have been using this sight in for years, works like a charm.
I wonder whether you might be over-estimating the size of red hinds in Scotland?
The bullets from my hill rifle drop 8" or so at 300yds. I would have to hold just below the back if I were to shoot a beast at that range.
 
#20
Nothing wrong with the good old inch high at a 100 yards at reasonable stalking distances no need for hold over,target shooting is a whole different th ing of course, and its good to be able to stretch out a bit if needed.
I know in my case an inch high at a 100 yards means shooting dead on from zero to 200 yards on a red putting the cross hairs just below the spine will result in a more or less perfect heart shot handy to know if needed but its not stalking.
 

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