.30-06

[2428 miles]

Thanks Watermain for your advice,

Yes, I picked up the general appreciation for the 6.5 x 55. I didn’t even need to ask really, did I!
The thing is I’m loathed to sell the .243 I would rather just add to the collection. And being technically 3rd hand it will have lost a lot of value. I have just spent 300 quid on having a T8 fitted so might hold on to the old girl for a while anyway.
Looking forward to the game fair already, a day in gun makers row!! Great place to get your mits on stuff and chat endless rifle talk.
I defiantly have far more of an idea what I am looking for now, narrowed down the options a little.
I’m not in too greater rush to be honest I just want to get the paperwork in and sorted.
sure will try out some of these rifles for sure.

 

[john.d.m]

Now we`re talking a proper calibre.
Have used one for over 10 years, always same bullets(180 grn),have shot alsorts from rabbits,foxes,dogs,goats, wild boar,a deer or two, multitude of plains game in Africa,Leopard etc etc.
When I started I had a Heym sr30 in 243, bought the 30-06,same make, and never used the 243 again, just my preference, and they were EXACTLY the same size,shape,weight etc etc even same `scopes.
A 30-06 will do anything you want it to do.
There is NO SUCH THING as overkill, dead is dead !
As for "kick" the most important thing to remember when choosing your rifle, get one that fits and DEF not one of the light weight "plastic pigs"

Seriousley though,if it fits well recoil isn`t nothing to worry about,ialot of people are worried about recoil before they even picked the rifle up,so when they try one, it`s in the back of their mind so they will feel it, even if it`s not there.
A calibre that is quite close to a 30-06 is the 300 H&H,nice round too,but a30-06 are more flexible with bullet weights,i.e from 90 grs up to 250 grns, I have heard of some Yanks using 300 grns in 30-06, don`t how or why or who though.
If your in my area and want to try a proper rifle anytime, give me a pm.

 

[Thar]

Hi Miles

and welcome to the site it is nice to see young blood coming into the sport and thats coming from a middle aged one ...................don't seem that long ago when I was a young blood.

What you will eventually gather is that there is a tremendous enthusiasm amongst SERIOUS stalkers of high reputation, for the 6.5x55 Swede.

I was some what hesitant about responding to this post as you have had some good replies and also I don’t know if I am a serious stalker but in my area we have two of the most respected deer stalkers in the Scotland one of them renowned for his roe and lesser extent Sika and the other for his west coast Red deerstalking, and neither of them use a 6.5X55, the female stalker Jan Andrews uses one I believe. Still you can read the pros or cons of that calibre else were on here and make your own mind up.

So seeing that you have a bit of time to think things over I will give you my input.

Personally I have found that the only deer legal calibre that I have shot and been able to see the deer’s reaction to the shot is .243 with 100gn bullet max’. That is without a moderator fitted.

On most factory rifle stocks the comb is too low for any scope above 42mm objective lens in low mounts so if you have a scope fitted in medium or high mounts you will loose cheek weld with the stock, this leads to you having to hold you cheek slightly off the comb to see your recticle, when the rifle is fired it recoils back and up and in doing so you loose your sight picture.

So first and fore most the rifle has to fit you properly, you can get pads to fit to your rifle stock to raise the comb on the stock, some are leather and these don’t look to bad on a wooden stocks you can also get dense foam ones that have a sticky backing that work well on synthetic stocks. You can buy after market custom stocks with adjustable combs and butt plates but these are mostly built around a target style.

It amazes me that while most shooters know how important it is to have a shotgun fit you correctly they spend so little time considering how well there rifles fit.

There were some pretty horrible synthetic stocks when it comes to absorbing recoil, the early Ruger M77 come to mind, but a modern Kevlar stock from a custom manufactory will absorb recoil better than a wooden stock, all other aspects being equal.


Moving on to the cartridge

First ,one of the laws of physics:- for every reaction there is a equal and opposite reaction.

So you want most energy put into your deer for as little energy being absorbed by your shoulder.

There fore you want the most efficient cartridge or for each grain of power burnt, you want the most ftlbs of energy in your bullet.

The relationship between amount of powder burnt and velocity of the bullet is not linear. For example a .308 uses about 45 gn maximum of powder and a 30-06 uses about 60gn maximum of powder, so the 30-06 has %33 more powder than a .308 but with a 150gn bullet it will only push it %10 quicker, and if you upped the powder charge by another %33 you would be lucky to see another %5 increase in velocity.

So which cartridge gives you the most energy for you gn of powder, well some Americans kindly did a lot of research and they reached the conclusion that the most efficient medium game cartridge was the ……………………………… 7X57 Ackley Improved.

This should not be such a big surprise as the British military did a lot of work in looking into the replacement for the .303 and came to almost the same conclusion however, the yanks wanted the 7.62X51mm (.308) so that’s was that for NATO and for us of cause (the French stuck two fingers up to the yanks and went there own way and kept the 7.5X54).

There is one problem with picking this “ideal” cartridge or any other wild cat or out of the usual round, when you are in the back of nowhere and you run out of ammo’ the local sporting shop will probably only have these for deer .243,.308,.270,and 30-06.

Fine if you can take enough of you metric rounds with you but if you run out you could be up sh1t creek with out a bullet.

Don’t put too much store in the fact that a particular calibre has a large choice of bullets weights, because of the rifle twist in your barrel will only be able to stabilise a small range of these bullets, it will not for example be able to accurately shoot 100gn to 220gn bullets.

Thar

(Formally known as Bambi Basher)

 

[swampy]

nice one thar

Hello BB
Nice reply mate. very eloquent and factual. I like the physics bit, it is dead right. there is a lot of ways that rifles work with varying pressures. >30-06 has a big case with plenty of slow burning powder. the .308 has higher pressures and less but faster powder.

the fact is there are loads and loads of good and some great calibres out there between .243 win and the .30 cal rifles. most will deliver a bullet of 100-160/180 grains fast enough to put venison in your larder.

It is personal choice.
7mm 08 looks nice. 7 x 57 is a proven game getter as are all the others. How about 270wsm? that looks great on paper.

swampy (guess who i am on another forum)

 

[monarman]

Swampy what paper you reading?... 270wsm.. miles was asking for a sweet shooting deer killer not a clavicle pounding, expensive to feed, barrel eating, limited ammo availabilty, gunshops have to order you one, ear bashing, boomstick!

You mention the 7x57, what agreat calibre you can buy factory fodder with bullet weights of 123grains and upwards and you can reload owt from 100 upwards, sutable for all uk species of deer . A bit limited for choice of rifles though even more so if you're like me and left handed, still kicking myself now for getting rid of my little mauser titan (will buy a Heym as soon as funds permit)

The main thing is to find a rifle that fits as each individual percieves recoil in a different way, one mans meat is another mans poison.

One thing that people neglect to take into consideration which is more important than calibre, is that of bullet performance. A whole new discussion could ensue on this subject.... any takers

 

[john.d.m]

see this is hijacked by the 6.5 lot

 

[Thar]

Re: nice one thar

Thanks for that Swampy

>30-06 has a big case with plenty of slow burning powder. the .308 has higher pressures and less but faster powder.

There is a Consensuses of opinion with 30-06 users that if you drive a 150gn bullet at the same velocity as a .308 with a 150gn bullet, that the felt recoil will be less in the 30-06, this is because a large amount of slow burning powder gives a steady push, were the faster burning powder in a 308 gives a more sharper felt recoil.

Hi John

I think the 7mm guys are doing well of late in this post 6.5 for plains game? what would your PH say.

Thar

(Formally known as Bambi Basher)

 

[john.d.m]

Thar,
If I turned up with a 6.5 to any of my friends in Africa, They would think I was ill or I had started batting for the other side and using a womans gun
They all know me and what I will turn up with,maybe I`m predictable, or maybe I got a rifle that works for me and for what I do.

 

[monarman]

I've just noticed that nobody seems to have had anything to say about the .270!

 

[Thar]

Steve

Well I have got one and I like it, but seeing that it is only 0.007” smaller in diameter than a 7mm I kind of think of it as a 7mm really, I would ideally like a 280 Ackley Improved but not that easy to get ammo for that round in the out back ect.

I see my 270 as a big deer round/ shooting abroad rifle, so I like to keep it something that is easy to get ammo for. I do reload for my UK use.

Thar

(Formally known as Bambi Basher)

 

[monarman]

Thar

110 v-max for my deer and 90 speer tnt for er....others.

Tend not to get exits and maximum i've had a deer er...stumble is 3 paces. just the way it should be!
you got yours moderated?

 

[john.d.m]

Glad to see your going to buy a Heym Stephen, another convert to a proper rifle !
It`s same as optics buy the best and buy it once.

 

[Watermain]

I knew I had something on the 7mm-08. Try this thread in the Cabelas site. Although I plumped for 6.5x55SE this thread nearly turned my head.

You may have to register at the site, but after THIS most illustrious site, the Cabelas' is the best I know.

http://forums.cabelas.com/showthread.php?t=1339

 

[malcolm]

30.06 is a good all round calibre for African plains game, and is also equally good for Red Stag and Sika Stag.

270 which is of course a 30.06 case necked down is also a very good round for Red Stag and Sika. I personally own a 270 Tikka, and have done for 20 years. The only mild drawback is that you do not have the scope to load up and down with bullet weights as much. I have taken a great many of the African Plains game with a 270, although I consider it a bit light for larger animals such as Zebra and Kudu, although it will do the job.

Someone mentioned that the 25.06 can only load up to 100grain bullets. This is not quite right, I load 120g bullets for my 25.06 Ruger, and use these for Sika Stag.

 

[john.d.m]

Agree with you there Malcolm,the 30-06 does what it says on the box ref Africa, and also, if you have problems ref ammunition when your out there it`s readily available in the local gunshops and most of the farmers or PH`s usually got a box kicking around somewhere too.

 

[Thar]

Thar

110 v-max for my deer and 90 speer tnt for er....others.

Tend not to get exits and maximum i've had a deer er...stumble is 3 paces. just the way it should be!
you got yours moderated?

Hi Stephen

Run mine on 130gn as it only comes out for the big stuff, I was feeding it Hornady Light Magnums it did like them.

Not got a moddy on it at the minute, but I stalk wearing electronic ear plugs to save my hearing.

Thar

 

[der Aulte Jaeger]

Short actions make sense!

The rifles that compare to the 30-06 most closely are the 270 Win and the 280 Remington Express. Of those two the 280 is closest and gives slightly less recoil as it shoots lighter bullets and uses less powder to do so. However sticking with just the .308 caliber, the .308 Win is very close and on so many counts a much better choice for most than is the 06. Numero Uno--the .308 gives approx the same velocity, energy, etc as does the 06 with all bullets up to and including the 165 gn loads and it does so with noticably less recoil contrary to what someone posted above. The formula for recoil gives the same weighting to the powders initial weight as it does bullet weight. Add the powder necessary (45 gns versus ~65 gns in the 06) and the bullet weight (say 150 gns) to get 2700 fps out of a .308 versus an 06 and you'll find the recoil very nicely reduced in the .308 Win. Couple that with the fact that I've owned a few Rem BDL 700s in 30-06 Spfld, 270 Win and the 280 Rem Exp, as well as the .308 Win and believe me the .308 is a jewel with recoil compared to the others. Given todays premium bullets, whereby a 150 gn bullet will outperform a 180 gn bullet of past days, and there's little reason to go with the 06 unless you really are after "big," big game. I do happen to have an 06 as it was the only lefty I've found, in a Steyr Mannlicher, but given the same make and model in a lefty version and in any of these calibers and it would be an easy choice. (7x57, 7mm-08, or the .308 Win) over the 30-06! I love light weight, short carbines and my scoped, slinged and loaded, 8 lb, 30-06, is a beast with any factory load of 150 gns and larger. Add to this the fast ejection and rechambering of the cartridge in any short action over a longer one and short makes great sense.

On the efficency that was mentioned above. you have to get all the way up into those wicked 35 calibers as in a 35 Whelen before the long action cases become efficient. All those such as the .257 Roberts, the .257 Roberts Imp, the Akley Imp mentioned above, the 7x57, the 7mm-08 and the .308 are highly efficent cartridges and give superior results with less recoil.

der Aulte Jaeger
Chuck S
"I've traveled many roads and some were not paved."

 

[Ade 30-06]

Not much to add to all the above .......BUT. Do remember that .308 ( 7.62) is a military round, and therefore it is NOT sanctioned to be taken to all far off lands for hunting purposes !

 

[Brithunter]

...

Add to this the fast ejection and rechambering of the cartridge in any short action over a longer one and short makes great sense.

Thank you for the laugh I really needed it this morning .

But in all honestly no one could tell the difference time wise in cycling the bolt between a normal long (2 1/2" case AKA 06 Springfield length) than a 57mm or 51mm length . If one can then either their rifle is pretty poor and rough as a badger a-hole or they seriously need to learn to operate a bolt action .

 

[Redneck]

Not much to add to all the above .......BUT. Do remember that .308 ( 7.62) is a military round, and therefore it is NOT sanctioned to be taken to all far off lands for hunting purposes !

I am also a fan of the 30.06 but lets remember it has also been one of the most used military rounds. Cant get it into France for instance. Still its as good as it gets in my book