300 Blackout Continued....

[hunta]

Following on from a previous thread I continue to develop loads for my 300BLK. I've concentrated on using Trail Boss for subsonic lighter weight bullets and Lil'Gun for supersonic loadings. The two bullets that I've used most are the Nosler 110g Varmageddon and the Sierra 135g HP.
The Nosler bullet has consistently been the most accurate of the two and I have a working supersonic load using Lil'Gun x 20.5g for 2350'/sec. I have zeroed at 125m and groups are MOA so it's point and shoot to 150m. This is my woodland muntjac load where ranges are usually well under 100m and often 20m - 30m.
My subsonic Nosler load uses Trail Boss x 5.2g for 1040'/sec. I'm zeroed at 55m where groups are 0.5" This is great fun when plinking and is a very effective vermin load.
I have found the Sierra 135g bullet more challenging to get MOA both at subsonic and supersonic. My best supersonic load to date is using Lil'Gun x 17.5g for 2180'/sec and produces groups between 1 - 1.5 MOA so pretty good. Chronograph readings are consistent. I plan to play around with seating depths.
I've had more difficulty achieving consistent subsonic loads with the Sierra 135g bullet. I'm trying to get around 1000'/sec with the Trail Boss. I can only achieve this speed when using 7g. This means the load is slightly compressed. Chronograph readings will show 3/4 shots at consistent velocity and then a shot 50 - 60'/sec slower which will usually be out of the group. As an aside my 1st loadings were producing 900'/sec and were less accurate. Accuracy improved as velocity increased. My Hornady brass has been weight batched, trimmed to consistent length and has been sized just enough to "feel" the bolt closing. Brass in very concentric. I've tried CCI standard, CCI BR4 and Federal 205M primers. I have seated the bullets 60 - 100 thou from the lands. I have been using a crimp die.

My question to 300BLK users is have you tried using magnum primers with Trail Boss or any other powders? Any other suggestions?

Photo shows a 4 bullet group at 1000'/sec and 5th bullet below at 950'/sec. One inch square.

 

[Muir]

Following on from a previous thread I continue to develop loads for my 300BLK. I've concentrated on using Trail Boss for subsonic lighter weight bullets and Lil'Gun for supersonic loadings. The two bullets that I've used most are the Nosler 110g Varmageddon and the Sierra 135g HP.
The Nosler bullet has consistently been the most accurate of the two and I have a working supersonic load using Lil'Gun x 20.5g for 2350'/sec. I have zeroed at 125m and groups are MOA so it's point and shoot to 150m. This is my woodland muntjac load where ranges are usually well under 100m and often 20m - 30m.
My subsonic Nosler load uses Trail Boss x 5.2g for 1040'/sec. I'm zeroed at 55m where groups are 0.5" This is great fun when plinking and is a very effective vermin load.
I have found the Sierra 135g bullet more challenging to get MOA both at subsonic and supersonic. My best supersonic load to date is using Lil'Gun x 17.5g for 2180'/sec and produces groups between 1 - 1.5 MOA so pretty good. Chronograph readings are consistent. I plan to play around with seating depths.
I've had more difficulty achieving consistent subsonic loads with the Sierra 135g bullet. I'm trying to get around 1000'/sec with the Trail Boss. I can only achieve this speed when using 7g. This means the load is slightly compressed. Chronograph readings will show 3/4 shots at consistent velocity and then a shot 50 - 60'/sec slower which will usually be out of the group. As an aside my 1st loadings were producing 900'/sec and were less accurate. Accuracy improved as velocity increased. My Hornady brass has been weight batched, trimmed to consistent length and has been sized just enough to "feel" the bolt closing. Brass in very concentric. I've tried CCI standard, CCI BR4 and Federal 205M primers. I have seated the bullets 60 - 100 thou from the lands. I have been using a crimp die.

My question to 300BLK users is have you tried using magnum primers with Trail Boss or any other powders? Any other suggestions?

Photo shows a 4 bullet group at 1000'/sec and 5th bullet below at 950'/sec. One inch square.View attachment 234131

Never used Magnum primers in any 300AAC loading. When you say crimping, I'm assuming Lee Factory Crimp die?? That Sierra loading at 17.5 of Lil Gun is one of my favorites. ~Muir

 

[hunta]

Never used Magnum primers in any 300AAC loading. When you say crimping, I'm assuming Lee Factory Crimp die?? That Sierra loading at 17.5 of Lil Gun is one of my favorites. ~Muir

I followed your recommendation to use 17.5g Lil'Gun . I'm getting consistent velocities when using Lil Gun. Yes I've been using a Lee factory crimp die. I have also loaded without crimping and to be honest I haven't noticed any difference. I've been getting the occasional inconsistent velocity when using Trail Boss and was wondering if anyone else had experienced this. Typically five shots will have one shot out of the group. I will get some magnum primers and see what happens. I would like to get the 135g bullets shooting well at about 1000'/sec. Problem is I have to compress the powder slightly to achieve this speed. Perhaps I should try another powder. I would be using about 7g of Lil Gun to achieve subsonic velocities with the 135g bullet. @ Muir. Do you think such low case fill of Lil Gun would produce consistent ignition?

 

[Muir]

I have never found accuracy with light bullets at Sub Sonic speeds. (I think we talked about this) I like to keep the subs at 168 grns and above. Try going the other way with primers: Switch to small pistol with LG and see what happens. ~Muir

 

[Foxyboy43]

I have never found accuracy with light bullets at Sub Sonic speeds. (I think we talked about this) I like to keep the subs at 168 grns and above. Try going the other way with primers: Switch to small pistol with LG and see what happens. ~Muir

Yep to this. Also Titegroup x 8gns (Hodgdon’s manual load) and 168g Sierras work well in .308.

 

[hunta]

Hi Muir. Yes you did mention that light bullets weren't the best in your rifles. Fortunately for me the 110g bullets that I've tried have gone well giving me some cheap plinking/vermin loads. Thanks again for your valuable advise and I'll try small pistol primers. Also thanks for your input Foxyboy.

 

[xavierdoc]

I can't answer your question as I never found a particularly good 135gr bullet load for mine.

However, be very wary of using Trail Boss compressed at all.

I'd second what Muir said about light bullet subsonic loads: go heavy as it's likely to help the internal ballistics ("reducing" case capacity and bigger mass to get moving) and maximises your muzzle energy given the velocity restriction to be subsonic.

 

[hunta]

I can't answer your question as I never found a particularly good 135gr bullet load for mine.

However, be very wary of using Trail Boss compressed at all.

I'd second what Muir said about light bullet subsonic loads: go heavy as it's likely to help the internal ballistics ("reducing" case capacity and bigger mass to get moving) and maximises your muzzle energy given the velocity restriction to be subsonic.

I suppose I'm being stubborn about wanting to get the 135g HPs going well. It's annoying me that 2/3/4 shots are a tight group and then 1/2 are creating a 1.5moa group.
Are you aware of issues when compressing Trail Boss? My latest loading with the 135g bullet compresses about 2mm so very little. This loading gave the best accuracy.
I am about to start loading some 208g and 220g bullets using Lil gun. The previous owner of my rifle used both of these bullet weights to good effect using Ramshot Enforcer. I have some Enforcer.

 

[Muir]

I suppose I'm being stubborn about wanting to get the 135g HPs going well. It's annoying me that 2/3/4 shots are a tight group and then 1/2 are creating a 1.5moa group.
Are you aware of issues when compressing Trail Boss? My latest loading with the 135g bullet compresses about 2mm so very little. This loading gave the best accuracy.
I am about to start loading some 208g and 220g bullets using Lil gun. The previous owner of my rifle used both of these bullet weights to good effect using Ramshot Enforcer. I have some Enforcer.

Trail Boss: Maximum load is the base of the bullet. You don't compress it at all.
From Hodgdon:
"This formula may be used in both rifle and pistol applications: Find where the base of the bullet to be loaded is located in the case and make a mark on the outside of the case at this location. Then fill the case to that mark with Trail Boss, pour into the scale pan and weigh. This is your maximum load. Pressures will be below the maximum allowed for this cartridge and perfectly safe to use! Take 70% of this powder charge weight (multiply the maximum load from step 1 by .7), and that is your starting load. Start with this beginning load and work up to your maximum charge, all the while searching for the most accurate reduced load. " (My Bolding)


~Muir

 

[Foxyboy43]

I suppose I'm being stubborn about wanting to get the 135g HPs going well. It's annoying me that 2/3/4 shots are a tight group and then 1/2 are creating a 1.5moa group.
Are you aware of issues when compressing Trail Boss? My latest loading with the 135g bullet compresses about 2mm so very little. This loading gave the best accuracy.
I am about to start loading some 208g and 220g bullets using Lil gun. The previous owner of my rifle used both of these bullet weights to good effect using Ramshot Enforcer. I have some Enforcer.

You are welcome - Titegroup is a very safe subsonic load with very little powder used (8gns). In .308 I have found that seating depth can be a factor in whether the round is subsonic or not and have reduced load to 7.5gns if required. Obviously the usual warning apllies!
It shoots really well out of the mosins too with the same load and 170gns bullets. I might soon try it in the 8mm too though case volume is different so loads may need tweaking.
In truth I have never used TB so don’t know how clean it is - as a wild thought could it be barrel fouling after only 3 rounds? Maybe worth trying cleaning after every shot. Good luck my friend.

 

[hunta]

Trail Boss: Maximum load is the base of the bullet. You don't compress it at all.
From Hodgdon:
"This formula may be used in both rifle and pistol applications: Find where the base of the bullet to be loaded is located in the case and make a mark on the outside of the case at this location. Then fill the case to that mark with Trail Boss, pour into the scale pan and weigh. This is your maximum load. Pressures will be below the maximum allowed for this cartridge and perfectly safe to use! Take 70% of this powder charge weight (multiply the maximum load from step 1 by .7), and that is your starting load. Start with this beginning load and work up to your maximum charge, all the while searching for the most accurate reduced load. " (My Bolding)


~Muir

Thanks again Muir. Based on the seating depths that I've played around with that would give me max loads of 6.5 - 6.8g with the Sierra 135g bullet.

Foxyboy. I was told that TB can leave a stick residue, particularly in the moderator. With this in mind I have kept an eye on barrel fouling and not noticed anything excessive. Also when using the Nosler 110g bullets at subsonic and supersonic speeds accuracy is good and doesn't deteriorate after numerous firings.

 

[phaedra]

I've been shooting 300 AAC sub-sonics for a number of years, my go to load is 3.4gr of Viht N310 under a 165gr Shell House 30-30 cast bullet (photo below) sized to .309. These can give single ragged hole groups at 25m from a 16" barrel Handi Rifle.



I've had a Howa 300 AAC min-action rifle on order for 6 months but as nobody seems to know where it is (on a ship somewhere) I'm picking up a Ruger American Ranch rifle on Thursday, will see how it shoots with the same load.

 

[hunta]

I've been shooting 300 AAC sub-sonics for a number of years, my go to load is 3.4gr of Viht N310 under a 165gr Shell House 30-30 cast bullet (photo below) sized to .309. These can give single ragged hole groups at 25m from a 16" barrel Handi Rifle.

View attachment 234521

I've had a Howa 300 AAC min-action rifle on order for 6 months but as nobody seems to know where it is (on a ship somewhere) I'm picking up a Ruger American Ranch rifle on Thursday, will see how it shoots with the same load.

I would be very interested to hear how you get on with the Ruger.

 

[phaedra]

I'll let you know how I get on with it, I'll have to extend the stock before I get a decent firing position with it as I'm 6' 5"

If it arrives on Thursday I'll scope it and take it to my 25yd indoor range for a quick zero and test.

Can't shoot any supersonic due to range limits but I'll use the 165 Shell House in it.

If I get the chance I may be able to get to a 100yd pipe range next week and try out the supersonics (16.8gr of Viht N120 and a Nosler CC 168gr)

 

[hunta]

Excellent. Thank you. I'll be out with mine tomorrow in the woods after muntjac. 110g Varmageddon at 2400'/sec. They fall over well!

 

[Muir]

I've been shooting 300 AAC sub-sonics for a number of years, my go to load is 3.4gr of Viht N310 under a 165gr Shell House 30-30 cast bullet (photo below) sized to .309. These can give single ragged hole groups at 25m from a 16" barrel Handi Rifle.

View attachment 234521

I've had a Howa 300 AAC min-action rifle on order for 6 months but as nobody seems to know where it is (on a ship somewhere) I'm picking up a Ruger American Ranch rifle on Thursday, will see how it shoots with the same load.

Are you picking up a rotary magazine model or the one that takes the AR mags??
I have the rotary model and it is a screamer.

100 yards from a bipod rest, IIRC. Think it was the 110 Novieske contract Noslers.

I will warn you about the box magazine models: Some are rough as a cob. To make them function with these magazines they must make multiple milling cuts in the bottom of the bolt. My 7.62x39 was horrid until I stoned some of the tool marks out, and now it's smooth and sweet. It took me 10 minutes using a small array of stones I have. My Grendel was not that bad. I have a friend who has one that is silky right from the factory. Luck of the draw. If you end up with one you need to stone, drop me a PM. Good, accurate, rugged rifles. I would take one over a Howa. ~Muir

 

[phaedra]

Thanks Muir
It should be the AR (P-Mag) version which I believe is the latest version?.

My AA Handi Rifle was producing 1.25 to 1.5" groups at 100yds with the 168 Noslers.
Not been able to use it for a few months as a small pin and bracket fell out of the trigger assy:, sent it off to the gunsmith who re-assembled the trigger last time, he's had it for 3 months.
I did look at the online trigger videos but none of them really showed the final re-fitting that I could follow, I'm sure H&R take about 20 seconds to do it!.

 

[Muir]

Thanks Muir
It should be the AR (P-Mag) version which I believe is the latest version?.

My AA Handi Rifle was producing 1.25 to 1.5" groups at 100yds with the 168 Noslers.
Not been able to use it for a few months as a small pin and bracket fell out of the trigger assy:, sent it off to the gunsmith who re-assembled the trigger last time, he's had it for 3 months.
I did look at the online trigger videos but none of them really showed the final re-fitting that I could follow, I'm sure H&R take about 20 seconds to do it!.

I remember you saying that about the H&R.
I really like my Ruger American (s). I have the CZ 527 in 300 AAC and it also shoots really well. I also have a target rifle built on an AR and a handgun built on an AR. All are very accurate but the Ruger Ranch has seen the most work. You really can't go wrong with the Ruger American Ranch series. My 7.62 is hanging on the back of my chair as I type this. It goes with me pretty everywhere but when I go to work. Tough and accurate. As I mentioned, Ruger doesn't spend a lot of time polishing out the milling marks on the bolt but the small amount of work that might be needed is worth the effort. ~Muir

 

[phaedra]

Well no shooting for me tonight

Viking Arms failed to deliver the Ruger to my RFD on Wednesday and again today

Hopefully it may turn up tomorrow so if I get time to scope and bore sight it I may get a chance to shoot tomorrow night or Monday night as I run the indoor range that night.

 

[phaedra]

And not today either

Rang Viking and it's not been shipped, as they won't ship over a weekend it "should" be with my RFD on Tuesday, so another trip to collect it.

I'll try and sight it at 25yds with subsonics Tuesday afternoon if I can get to the club.
I have an Athlon scope to mount on it, from previous use with the Handi Rifle once zeroed at 25yds with the subsonics it's a 1cm vertical adj. to switch to supersonic loads.

I have an hour booked at the nearest 100yd pipe range on Wednesday morning so will try to get it tested there as well.

Going to be a busy week!, Xmas can wait, I have more important things to do with my time