Trail boss is a filthy powderYou are welcome - Titegroup is a very safe subsonic load with very little powder used (8gns). In .308 I have found that seating depth can be a factor in whether the round is subsonic or not and have reduced load to 7.5gns if required. Obviously the usual warning apllies!
It shoots really well out of the mosins too with the same load and 170gns bullets. I might soon try it in the 8mm too though case volume is different so loads may need tweaking.
In truth I have never used TB so don’t know how clean it is - as a wild thought could it be barrel fouling after only 3 rounds? Maybe worth trying cleaning after every shot. Good luck my friend.
300 Blackout Continued....
- Thread starter hunta
- Start date
phaedra
Well-Known Member
Finally picked up the Ruiger American in 300AAC., first impressions are .... not a happy bunny
The bolt is so stiff loading rounds and sometimes almost impossible to pull back and extract.
At first I put this down to the round nose flat point bullets I use as it kept clipping the face and then jamming another round in when trying to unload/extract the first round.
Just got home and tried some loaded with Nosler 168gr CC, nice shiny pointy bullets, not really much better, it feeds slightly better (but still takes a lot of force) and the extraction is no better.
Sometimes it's OK others you almost have to whack the bolt handle with a brick to get it to pull back, and that's just loading dummy rounds so no case expansion issues.
Cycling the bolt with no ammo it feels OK, a bit agricultural/wobbly but nothing nasty.
It also needs a large cheek riser. .5 to .75" at a guess. I tried it with 2 scopes, an Athlon 6-24x50 and my usual Simmons WTC 1.5-5x20, even that needs a riser.
Best group I managed with the subsonics was under 1" at 25yds, I think the amount of fluffing about with it and lack of a cheek riser really didn't help!.
Going to give it a good clean out and coat the bolt and receiver with CLP (Safari Land Breakfree) and try it again next week,
The bolt is so stiff loading rounds and sometimes almost impossible to pull back and extract.
At first I put this down to the round nose flat point bullets I use as it kept clipping the face and then jamming another round in when trying to unload/extract the first round.
Just got home and tried some loaded with Nosler 168gr CC, nice shiny pointy bullets, not really much better, it feeds slightly better (but still takes a lot of force) and the extraction is no better.
Sometimes it's OK others you almost have to whack the bolt handle with a brick to get it to pull back, and that's just loading dummy rounds so no case expansion issues.
Cycling the bolt with no ammo it feels OK, a bit agricultural/wobbly but nothing nasty.
It also needs a large cheek riser. .5 to .75" at a guess. I tried it with 2 scopes, an Athlon 6-24x50 and my usual Simmons WTC 1.5-5x20, even that needs a riser.
Best group I managed with the subsonics was under 1" at 25yds, I think the amount of fluffing about with it and lack of a cheek riser really didn't help!.
Going to give it a good clean out and coat the bolt and receiver with CLP (Safari Land Breakfree) and try it again next week,
Oh begger. That's not a good introduction to a new rifle. I know that Muir did indicate that finish quality was variable but your Ruger doesn't sound great. Like you say hopefully a little work on the bolt will cure the stiffness issue. I'm sure that Muir will be along and offer some of his usual good advice. I have heard from several sources that the Ruger American is an accurate rifle so I've no doubt that it will come good.
phaedra
Well-Known Member
I spent a bit of time (after a cup of tea and a calm down) and lubed the bolt which helped a bit.
I also checked the chamber against my Handi Rifle, distance to lands (using the same bullet) is within 2thou" That means my current FMJ loads are a good 30thou" off so not jamming into them.
Will have a better look at it tomorrow while I wait for Asda to deliver half of what I've ordered and short dated most of the rest of it
I also checked the chamber against my Handi Rifle, distance to lands (using the same bullet) is within 2thou" That means my current FMJ loads are a good 30thou" off so not jamming into them.
Will have a better look at it tomorrow while I wait for Asda to deliver half of what I've ordered and short dated most of the rest of it
Yeah. My 7.62x39 was terrible.
So borrow some stones and get ready for 20 minutes work.
The bolt guide is the main hang up. I have a stone that fits right down the center of that cut. It you can beg or borrow s stone that will fit that slot you can improve the cycling by leaps and bounds. Take a large stone and break the sharp edges of that slot. On the many milled surfaces you will see milling machine marks. Take a good flat stone and take them to task. Do every surface except the lugs. Lightly oil the bolt and try it. It should be much smoother. Feel for sharp edges with your fingers and stone them away. You don't need to remove every tool mark at once. Repeat the whole process a few times.
I did a friends 7.62x39 while standing in his reloading room talking. It took about 15 or 20 minutes. When done his bolt was very smooth. My x39 is very smooth as well. I have also done my old Grendel with great success. ~Muir
So borrow some stones and get ready for 20 minutes work.
The bolt guide is the main hang up. I have a stone that fits right down the center of that cut. It you can beg or borrow s stone that will fit that slot you can improve the cycling by leaps and bounds. Take a large stone and break the sharp edges of that slot. On the many milled surfaces you will see milling machine marks. Take a good flat stone and take them to task. Do every surface except the lugs. Lightly oil the bolt and try it. It should be much smoother. Feel for sharp edges with your fingers and stone them away. You don't need to remove every tool mark at once. Repeat the whole process a few times.
I did a friends 7.62x39 while standing in his reloading room talking. It took about 15 or 20 minutes. When done his bolt was very smooth. My x39 is very smooth as well. I have also done my old Grendel with great success. ~Muir
Look for one that will fit the bolt guide. Any other good grade of fine stone will handle the rest. I found ceramic stones about 5/8" square. Did the trick on the main bolt body. I'll try to send you a pic of my bolt and where I stoned. Was going to do it last night but was pre-occupied. ~Muir
phaedra
Well-Known Member
Just a small update to this.
Feeding problems with FMJ is now 100% better, I bought the magazine Ruger should have supplied in the first place, Magpul P-Mag specifically for 300BLK (7.62x35) not the 223 (5.56x45) they ship it with.
Only problem is it's a 30rnd mag so far too big for what I need but that's all that's available here.
It still gives the odd jam feeding the RNFP cast boolits but they do that in one of my 308's as well.
I'll sort out a 10rnd next trip to the USA in May (hopefully!), my MidwayUSA shopping cart is getting a bit full
Bolt is still a bit rough but I have some polishing stones on the way.
Feeding problems with FMJ is now 100% better, I bought the magazine Ruger should have supplied in the first place, Magpul P-Mag specifically for 300BLK (7.62x35) not the 223 (5.56x45) they ship it with.
Only problem is it's a 30rnd mag so far too big for what I need but that's all that's available here.
It still gives the odd jam feeding the RNFP cast boolits but they do that in one of my 308's as well.
I'll sort out a 10rnd next trip to the USA in May (hopefully!), my MidwayUSA shopping cart is getting a bit full
Bolt is still a bit rough but I have some polishing stones on the way.
Glad the feeding problem is better. My Rem 700 mag feeds well most of the time. 110g spire points need to be fed positively. If I try to ease a round in quietly it can jam. The 220g round nose will feed with ease all the time. I've just developed a good subsonic load with the Nosler 220g bullet. 1050'/sec using 8g of Lilgun. A bit more noisy than the 110g bullets at the same speed in front of Trail Boss but very consistent velocity. Compared to Trail boss I'm getting better consistency when using Lilgun whether subsonic or supersonic.
I'm glad you have some stones coming. For some reason my phone-to-computer will not allow me to load a pic onto this forum. So much for the handful of photos I took.
I bought my girlfriend a Ruger 7,62x39 and fully expected it to need 'the treatment' as well but the bolt is quite smooth and feeding flawless. I guess it's luck of the draw. With the X39 models, it is about 50/50. I've handles two that needed it. Two that haven't. ~Muir
I bought my girlfriend a Ruger 7,62x39 and fully expected it to need 'the treatment' as well but the bolt is quite smooth and feeding flawless. I guess it's luck of the draw. With the X39 models, it is about 50/50. I've handles two that needed it. Two that haven't. ~Muir
phaedra
Well-Known Member
It's not as accurate as the Handi Rifle (using the same loads), I'm a bit stuck for bullet choice as our indoor 25yd club doesn't allow jacketed.
The ShellHouse 165gr RNFP group very nicely out of the Handi Rifle and my 308s, the Ruger is about 1" with the odd outlier.
I'm trying to get time to run a ladder test but usually when I'm at the club I'm duty officer so stuck behind the desk.
I did try it at 100yds, 17gr of Viht N120 behind a 168gr Nosler CC, got about 1.5" - 1.75" (outer edges), again not been able to run a ladder test due to feeding issues etc..
I'll try and get another hour booked at the pipe range next week and take some loads to test.
Also doesn't like Magtech 7-1/2 primers, about 1 or 2 in 10 need a second strike, had the same issue in the Handi Rifle but they are a known hard cup primer.
The ShellHouse 165gr RNFP group very nicely out of the Handi Rifle and my 308s, the Ruger is about 1" with the odd outlier.
I'm trying to get time to run a ladder test but usually when I'm at the club I'm duty officer so stuck behind the desk.
I did try it at 100yds, 17gr of Viht N120 behind a 168gr Nosler CC, got about 1.5" - 1.75" (outer edges), again not been able to run a ladder test due to feeding issues etc..
I'll try and get another hour booked at the pipe range next week and take some loads to test.
Also doesn't like Magtech 7-1/2 primers, about 1 or 2 in 10 need a second strike, had the same issue in the Handi Rifle but they are a known hard cup primer.
Interesting about the Magtech primers needing a second strike. I had a couple of CCI BR4 primers that needed a second strike. I just assumed that I hadn't closed the bolt down fully. My load development has been going well. I'm lucky enough to have very close farm land to shoot on. My target accuracy is MOA. The Nosler 110g Varm shoots very well from 1000'/sec to 2400'/sec. The subsonic load using Trail Boss is nice and quiet. Biggest disappointment is the tendency of Trail Boss to have slightly erratic velocity with the occasional bullet hole being slightly out of the group, though still MOA. Also I need to find some more Nosler 110s as my usual supplier can't get any.
phaedra
Well-Known Member
Small update.
Grouping better with the ShellHouse 165gr RNFP using 3.4gr of N310 but now with a slight roll over crimp using the bullet seating die instead of the factory crimp die.
However, feeding is still poor, once inserted the magazine drops about 1/8" at the front lowering the bullets, with spire point or FMJ they ride up into the breach, the flat point don't.
I've ran a few layers of inslating tape down the back of the mag so it doesn't move backwards into the channel at the back of the mag well.
Changed from Magtech SRP to S&B and they are even worse, about 7/10 need to be struck twice
As I'm using N310 I may switch to SPP, they have enough power to ignite it.
Grouping better with the ShellHouse 165gr RNFP using 3.4gr of N310 but now with a slight roll over crimp using the bullet seating die instead of the factory crimp die.
However, feeding is still poor, once inserted the magazine drops about 1/8" at the front lowering the bullets, with spire point or FMJ they ride up into the breach, the flat point don't.
I've ran a few layers of inslating tape down the back of the mag so it doesn't move backwards into the channel at the back of the mag well.
Changed from Magtech SRP to S&B and they are even worse, about 7/10 need to be struck twice
As I'm using N310 I may switch to SPP, they have enough power to ignite it.
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