tackb
Well-Known Member
within less than 100ft/lbs of each other at 200m
so again , not really a big difference
6.5x55 for all deer
- Thread starter owenlee
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so again , not really a big difference
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
I had a look and it reported more than that. Nearly 400 FPs.
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
6.5 Creedmoor Versus 270 Winchester — Ron Spomer Outdoors
In a 6.5 Creedmoor versus 270 Winchester ballistic competition, which wins? Drop, drift, retained energy, velocity, and recoil are compared.
www.ronspomeroutdoors.com
tackb
Well-Known Member
@200m , 270win 1971 ft/lbs creed 1841 ft/lbs - sorry my bad the difference is 130 ft/lbs
still not enough for the deer to notice though?
this was factory loads and really just to show the difference isn't as great as people would have you believe
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
Its actually a schitt load more,lots more.
tackb
Well-Known Member
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
The link i posted above really dissects the two calibres.
I`m a lover of foot pounds oomph personally.
If you are shooting a 129sst from a Creedmoor at 2950, then absolutely - very little, if any difference between Creedmoor and .270.
However, if you chrono factory ammo being shot from a 20” barrel, it’s almost always a lot slower. The 129sst I’ve chrono’d have been nearer 2800. I’ve even chrono’d 95gr vmax at 3050, which is dismal.
I’ll completely agree that IF you can get the speeds up, by using a long barrel and/or home loading, then things change a lot and the difference between .270 and 6.5CM start to disappear.
As I say - I like the Creedmoor, a lot. I’d be happy to use it as my only rifle if I had to. But it has limitations, and these need to be understood. Like any cartridge.
tackb
Well-Known Member
fair enough , i compared like for like
how does the 270 do from a 20'' barrel ?
i use 140gr ammo in my creed so 2950 is just a dream , i make do with 2750 , ironically very little difference between my two creeds (20'' v 24'')
big ears
Well-Known Member
Short answer is yes you are overthinking
Picture if royal stag at 340m 140gr game king out of 6.5x55
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Like for like…
20” Creedmoor, 129gr sst chrono’d at 2800.
20” .270 130gr chrono’d at 3000.
Pretty chunky difference.
With 143gr in my Creedmoor, I get 2550 with factory, but get it up to 2750 with home loads.
Cranborne
Well-Known Member
Can't argue with that!
big ears
Well-Known Member
One of my best days stalking ever. What a day!!
Scipio
Well-Known Member
Sure that mv can matter, but it will be relative to shot placement, bullet type and, not least, terminal velocity, will it not?
And even if one really rates the effect of speed for terminal effect, a 270 of the same sd and bc to a 6.5 projectile shot from a x55 is going what, a 100 fps second quicker?
In how many yards are those 100 fps and extra energy lost, 20 meters, 30 maybe? It goes quite quickly. Now at least there is some difference of mass and diameter between a 277 and 264 bullet of the same bc and sd, and that might make a difference as well, however this discussion about "fast cartridges" and their greater killing power vs "slower cartridges" does interest me, because in the end it is all relative to travelled distance and thus terminal velocity.
Because of course a 3006 is faster than a 308 if used to its potential, and so is a 25-06 and 6.5-06 to a 6.5x55 or a 7x64 or 270 even to a 7mm08 or 7x57. However given how quickly speed and energy is lost in flight, what that circa 10 % greater case capacity cartridges of the same caliber buys you, are 20-30 meters before they litteraly do exactly the same thing as the smaller case capacity ones mentioned.
So the killing power of a 30-06 vs a 308, or 280 or 7x64 vs a 7x57 is the same in terms of energy, speed, mass etc with only quite a few meters between them. Maybe often only about 20 or 25.
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
A Toyota truck traveling at 100kph V a mini minor at 100kph ...which one hits hardest lol.
Scipio
Well-Known Member
well tbf to the 270, it can within its limites go quite a bit faster, whilst that sounds pretty fast for a 6.5 creed.
However if the 6,5 creed just wanted to match a 130 grn 270 bullet of the same type sd and bc wise, it could likely go down to about 115 grn, and then it might suddenly indeed not be that far behind in terms of speed. However in doing so it would loose its advantage over distance, and it would of course carry less mass and surface area too.
But again, in all this talk of speed, and one cartridge being superior vs another, i think we tend to forget just how quickly speed is lost and energy shed.
this is a 308 and 3006 shooting the same projectile. The 06 starts out faster and more powerful, of course, but going by the numbers is does exactly what the 308 does, physically, just 45 to 50 meter further down the line. Nothing more than that. And it's a bit the same with the other 06 case capacity family cartridges vs the 08s, x55s or x57s, - using the same bullet they do pretty much the same, physically, just with 25-45 meters difference or so. So even if one subscribes to the "speed is king " theory for terminal ballistics, that extra speed that a lot of the often called "quick cartridges" has, is only really carried for a further 30 or 40 meters, vs the "slower or normal" cartridges of the same caliber.
Scipio
Well-Known Member
Hello buddy
Well, i think you misunderstand the example somewhat, or perhaps i mixed them a bit unfortunately together, as in the 6.5x55 vs 270 example, there is after all quite rightly a difference of mass and diameter, when BC and SD are matched.
However my main point was more that in terms of the oftenly perceived "quick cartridges" of the 06 family, so the 280, the 270, even th7x64 and the 6.5-06 vs the class just below that, having about 10% less case capacity, but shooting the same diameter and weight bullet. Because in those cases, the type and model of car that you are facing, to stay with your example, is exactly the same!! So you are facing, and being hit by, exactly the same car in this case, just 30 or 40 meters further down the road.
Now That might be worth it to some, of course, but it's not like some magic wand or something, it's litteraly buying 30-40 meters extra performance for a good bit more recoil and powder used. Then it is of course up to each hunter to evaluate, if they think that is an exchange which is worth it, or not. Each to their own, in that case
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John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
AS previously mentioned,I do like oomph. 100`s of 1000`s of big sambar deer have been put down by 270`s and 30-06s with say an average of 150gr projectile. Some I know even tried 220gr in 30-06, not enough oomph to make them work on big deer though. I chose my 7mm RM 45 years ago because of the far more oomph with the same weight bullet.
Yes people will offer up the same old crap of but it costs more in powder,me? I couldn't give one flying *uck lol simply because for our stalking in daylight a bloke is not firing off 500 rounds at deer. One big deer carcase in worth of meat value is enough to buy a hand trolley of powder.
If the 270 has more O than the CM then that`s my choice solved....easy ha ha....that is for bush stalking as i`m no fan of way the **** over there type ranges.
Btw my choice of 7mm rm was when as a young bloke I visited an old hand that had run hounds forever,he had deer heads on deer heads and he said on the day.." i`ve shot deer with 243`s,30-06`s,30 cal choppers (90 grM1) 270s you ****ing name it but (as he reached into his gun cabinet) nothing puts a big sambar stag like this **** does" WHAT IS IT I blurted..7mm RM. Straight off to Frank O`reillys for a mod 70 and two boxes of ready mades. You know he was right!
Scipio
Well-Known Member
Yep, fair enough mate, and of course that extra ooomf, in the extra meters you have it, does buy you something.
I've never heard about someone predominantly using a 7mmRemMag for close quarter hunting Before , but then again I have never ever met a sambar hunter either, so I guess that might explain that
Have you read Nathan Fosters article on "how bullets kill" ? It's quite interesting, and he too values impact speeds over 2600 fps highly for added terminal effect, unless one gets into very large diameter bullets, where less will still do it, in his opinion
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
It isnt always close quarters but for whatever is in front of you the calibre is good for both ends of the ranges. The close stuff is often in heavy thick stuff and the hunter needs to put the deer down quickly hence imo the needed oomph.
I have hunted the Wicklows and the forests there need oomph too lol.
Yes, im very familiar with NF`s studies.
In this stuff which in fact is fairly open you need oomph for on the spot dead right there.. If they do a runner in this stuff well then you earn your stripes.
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