6.5x55 for all deer

[Scipio]

Interesting. I will save that link. Hadn’t seen that information yet. I was referring to the factory loaded Norma ammo available to me in US. The 156 and 140 grain ammo are listed 2559 and 2592 fps respectively. The 140 seems very under loaded comparatively and compared to the load data you listed.

Hello mate, and glad i could help

Yes Norma tend to publish quite modern strength loads for the 6.5x55 (and for another oldie like the 7x57 too). Xxlreloading.com also tend to carry quite a lot of modern loads for such cartridges. I'll screenshot you an example of their 6.5x55 loads for the 140 sbt game kings and add it to this post.

 

[Laurie]

I have a number of older reloading manuals that make a point of differentiating between loads for Krags and M96s and AG42s . The newer manuals are not as thorough in this aspect unfortunately. I don't consider the upper end velocity loadings to be high pressure , they are within the pressure envelope that the rifle and cartridge were designed for .

I recently compared 6.5X55 loads tables between different editions of the Speer Reloading Manual. (This is one of those that provide two levels depending on rifle age/type.) There was a huge reduction in the more recent edition including those for strong modern rifles, to the point where I'd regard them as weak for Swedish Mausers never mind Tikka, CZ, Savage and suchlike.

 

[alberta boy]

I recently compared 6.5X55 loads tables between different editions of the Speer Reloading Manual. (This is one of those that provide two levels depending on rifle age/type.) There was a huge reduction in the more recent edition including those for strong modern rifles, to the point where I'd regard them as weak for Swedish Mausers never mind Tikka, CZ, Savage and suchlike.

Yes , there is a substantial drop in some manuals . I can't say that I understand why. Powders vary over the years , I've noticed IMR 4831 has changed a lot since I first used it almost 50 years ago, but some of the new data is just way under potential , and safe , pressures .

AB

 

[John Gryphon]

has changed a lot since I first used it almost 50 years ago,

So has your ****y lol

 

[Mungo]

Would be an interesting experiment indeed, (and one that would provide a nice amount of venison too, lol) - but my thesis, pre experiment, would be that both could be effective, but that they would vary in terms of the shot placement and bullet construction needed for them to be optimally effective.

Absolutely. No question.

I more or less do this very experiment myself. I shoot a Creedmoor and a .22 ARC at roe. Same ground, same conditions.

Creedmoor is firing 143gr Eldx at 2550 (factory) or 2750 (home loads). I switch between them depending on how close I think I’m going to be.

.22 ARC is firing 52gr Eldm at 3650.

The sample size so far is small, but every roe I’ve hit in the chest with the .22 ARC has dropped on the spot (max range 185m). By contrast, I do occasionally get runners with the Creedmoor - though usually only at longer range (200+), so not a totally fair comparison.

However, exactly as you say, I change the point of aim. Creedmoor goes through the shoulder. ARC as much as possible avoids the shoulder. Sooner or later I will hit the shoulder with the ARC, and I’ll be curious to see what happens.

 

[ejg]

As far as i understood and read was cartridges that had +P stamped on the head were cartridges with thicker brass walls made for running higher pressures. Several pistol cartridges and a few rifle cartridges had +P versions. Never heard of a 6.5x55 with +P. Max pressure of the 6.5x55 is 3800bar according to CIP which has nothing to do with older rifles, purely based on the original brass case. Winchester for example brought out a thicker walled case for the 257 Roberts with +P mentioned in the Speer Manual 13, which also said the load should be reduced when using in Mauser 93/95 or slide action.
At some point it makes sense to go with a new or newer cartridge that has a clear cut set of rules with load data that is up to date.
edi

 

[tackb]

As far as i understood and read was cartridges that had +P stamped on the head were cartridges with thicker brass walls made for running higher pressures. Several pistol cartridges and a few rifle cartridges had +P versions. Never heard of a 6.5x55 with +P. Max pressure of the 6.5x55 is 3800bar according to CIP which has nothing to do with older rifles, purely based on the original brass case. Winchester for example brought out a thicker walled case for the 257 Roberts with +P mentioned in the Speer Manual 13, which also said the load should be reduced when using in Mauser 93/95 or slide action.
At some point it makes sense to go with a new or newer cartridge that has a clear cut set of rules with load data that is up to date.
edi

interesting , i have never seen +p rifle cartridges but it was common to see in my pistol days

 

[25 Sharps]

As far as i understood and read was cartridges that had +P stamped on the head were cartridges with thicker brass walls made for running higher pressures. Several pistol cartridges and a few rifle cartridges had +P versions. Never heard of a 6.5x55 with +P. Max pressure of the 6.5x55 is 3800bar according to CIP which has nothing to do with older rifles, purely based on the original brass case. Winchester for example brought out a thicker walled case for the 257 Roberts with +P mentioned in the Speer Manual 13, which also said the load should be reduced when using in Mauser 93/95 or slide action.
At some point it makes sense to go with a new or newer cartridge that has a clear cut set of rules with load data that is up to date.
edi

So, if I load my .280 in reformed .270 brass I can load it to 65000 PSI rather than the 60000 PSI for the original case?

It’s the same with any cartridge, some brass is thicker and stronger plenty of people loading 6.5x55 to creedmoor pressures in decent brass like Lapua. There’s nothing new there and there’s not lots of reports of modern 6.5x55s being blown up.

Ultimately, for an experienced reloader and a modern action there’s nothing in it between 6.5 creedmoor and 6.5x55, so it’s down to the individual to choose or be like me and have both! At the end of the day, either will deal with all UK game.

 

[Scipio]

Absolutely. No question.

I more or less do this very experiment myself. I shoot a Creedmoor and a .22 ARC at roe. Same ground, same conditions.

Creedmoor is firing 143gr Eldx at 2550 (factory) or 2750 (home loads). I switch between them depending on how close I think I’m going to be.

.22 ARC is firing 52gr Eldm at 3650.

The sample size so far is small, but every roe I’ve hit in the chest with the .22 ARC has dropped on the spot (max range 185m). By contrast, I do occasionally get runners with the Creedmoor - though usually only at longer range (200+), so not a totally fair comparison.

However, exactly as you say, I change the point of aim. Creedmoor goes through the shoulder. ARC as much as possible avoids the shoulder. Sooner or later I will hit the shoulder with the ARC, and I’ll be curious to see what happens.

Cool field experiment Mungo, and thanks for sharing your feed back. - do let us know how it develops

If i may suggest a litte variation, or rather expansion, to the field experimentation, it would be to hit the shoulders wich each caliber, but with the same bullet type, that being one fit for purpose. So a bonded one, or a partition type or maybe a solid non lead. That could be quite cool, to see if the tabled between the two is then reveresed or not, but also to discover if the TV speed of the ARC might be too much for that shot placement, (i am thinking of carcass damage), unless we're talking longer ranges, of course. .-)

 

[Scipio]

interesting , i have never seen +p rifle cartridges but it was common to see in my pistol days

So, if I load my .280 in reformed .270 brass I can load it to 65000 PSI rather than the 60000 PSI for the original case?

It’s the same with any cartridge, some brass is thicker and stronger plenty of people loading 6.5x55 to creedmoor pressures in decent brass like Lapua. There’s nothing new there and there’s not lots of reports of modern 6.5x55s being blown up.

Ultimately, for an experienced reloader and a modern action there’s nothing in it between 6.5 creedmoor and 6.5x55, so it’s down to the individual to choose or be like me and have both! At the end of the day, either will deal with all UK game.

Hello lads, this is a most interesting discussion indeed .-) So interesting in fact, that i once tried to create a thread, to gather the many different opinions on the matter, and have a central place to discuss it, here: Pressure limits in older european calibers, - do they make sense with modern actions and brass??
Safe to say that no final conclusion was reached, but some interesting posts were definitely made along the way.

As for the 6.5x55 (or the 6.5x57 for that matter), modern cip pressures are quite decent, and if homeloading to those, the speed obtained are pretty comparable to more modern cartridges, shooting the same caliber bullet. Could one then go safely beyond that, and raise the pressure to say 65 k? And if one does it, is special brass needed ?
Well, again, i dont know, but maybe a specialist like @Laurie does? Personally i dont have the need to push it that far, or the expertise and insight needed either, but some might, of course.

 

[ejg]

So, if I load my .280 in reformed .270 brass I can load it to 65000 PSI rather than the 60000 PSI for the original case?

It’s the same with any cartridge, some brass is thicker and stronger plenty of people loading 6.5x55 to creedmoor pressures in decent brass like Lapua. There’s nothing new there and there’s not lots of reports of modern 6.5x55s being blown up.

Ultimately, for an experienced reloader and a modern action there’s nothing in it between 6.5 creedmoor and 6.5x55, so it’s down to the individual to choose or be like me and have both! At the end of the day, either will deal with all UK game.

Oh yes you are right, you can load any cartridge to any pressure you like. As long as you don't injure others.
Maybe you should think about publishing a reloading manual.
I think if one wants a cartridge loaded to say 4350 bar like a 6.5 CM or to the level of PRC's then buy one, why try hot rod another cartridge never intended to be run at these pressures.
edi

 

[25 Sharps]

Oh yes you are right, you can load any cartridge to any pressure you like. As long as you don't injure others.
Maybe you should think about publishing a reloading manual.
I think if one wants a cartridge loaded to say 4350 bar like a 6.5 CM or to the level of PRC's then buy one, why try hot rod another cartridge never intended to be run at these pressures.
edi

You’re the one that stated the case design is the weak link, I’m simply pointing out that stronger cases exist.

The 6.5x55 issue isn’t the case, it’s the weaker older actions, the same as (edit) trapdoor 45-70s shouldn’t be loaded to underlever pressures. It’s not the case that will fail, it’s the fact the action might as the case is only as strong as the action around it.

Back to the .280 vs .270, if I am loading a .280 in .270 brass in an action that is also chambered for .270, can the .280 be loaded to the .270’s higher pressure safely?

As for creedmoor or PRC, my next 6.5 will be a 6.5x55AI.

 

[tackb]

You’re the one that stated the case design is the weak link, I’m simply pointing out that stronger cases exist.

The 6.5x55 issue isn’t the case, it’s the weaker older actions, the same as falling block 45-70s shouldn’t be loaded to underlever pressures. It’s not the case that will fail, it’s the fact the action might as the case is only as strong as the action around it.

Back to the .280 vs .270, if I am loading a .280 in .270 brass in an action that is also chambered for .270, can the .280 be loaded to the .270’s higher pressure safely?

ruger number 1 is falling block...........

 

[25 Sharps]

ruger number 1 is falling block...........

My mistake, trapdoor rifles…..

 

[tackb]

Oh yes you are right, you can load any cartridge to any pressure you like. As long as you don't injure others.
Maybe you should think about publishing a reloading manual.
I think if one wants a cartridge loaded to say 4350 bar like a 6.5 CM or to the level of PRC's then buy one, why try hot rod another cartridge never intended to be run at these pressures.
edi

this !

why try and make a 6.5x55 into a 6.5prc , decide the performance you want and buy the appropriate cartridge!

 

[25 Sharps]

this !

why try and make a 6.5x55 into a 6.5prc , decide the performance you want and buy the appropriate cartridge!

Because you already have the 6.5x55 and it’s more than capable, without being pushed to PRC speeds?

The OP already has a 6.5x55 and is asking if it’s suitable for all UK quarry, which it is.

 

[tackb]

Because you already have the 6.5x55 and it’s more than capable, without being pushed to PRC speeds?

The OP already has a 6.5x55 and is asking if it’s suitable for all UK quarry, which it is.

i know and wasn't replying to him , i replied to the op ages ago

 

[25 Sharps]

i know and wasn't replying to him , i replied to the op ages ago

But you were answering EJG’s question of why try to hot rod a cartridge? The answer is because it’s the one you already have.

 

[25 Sharps]

Oh yes you are right, you can load any cartridge to any pressure you like. As long as you don't injure others.
Maybe you should think about publishing a reloading manual.
I think if one wants a cartridge loaded to say 4350 bar like a 6.5 CM or to the level of PRC's then buy one, why try hot rod another cartridge never intended to be run at these pressures.
edi

What do you make of Nosler’s data then @ejg ? They seem to suggest that 6.5x55 can be loaded with Saami pressure and be as good, or better, than the creedmoor with a shorter barrel.

Do they know that 6.5x55 brass is weak?

The data suggests that 6.5x55 can match or surpass the creedmoor without being ‘hot rodded’ or going over pressure.

 

[ejg]

Sharps, the 6.5CM vs 6.5x55 Battle seems to hit you hard. I think Hornady did a great job with the 6.5 CM as well as the PRC range as they did no go overboard in power, even weaker than similar cartridges already in the market. Goal was to achieve an accurate cartridge not the most powerful. Even so the market decided for the weaker 6.5CM cartridge and ran away from the swede/260 etc. Rightly so, they understood the difference. My only gripe is when people start promoting to load to higher than spec pressures. The only reason you want to do that is to achieve higher speeds.... why not buy a rifle/cartridge that achieves what you want within the SAAMI/CIP spec?
edi